This week we lived through another NTRP Ratings Release Day! Carolyn and Erin always enjoy recording an episode the week this happens and 2023 is no different.

Did your NTRP rating change? Did you go up or down? This can be the most exciting day of the year or the worst!

Here are some other episodes you might be interested in regarding NTRP ratings release day:

Here’s a complete transcript of our discussion about NTRP Ratings release day:

Carolyn Roach: 0:06

Hi, this is Carolyn and I’m here with Erin and it’s the most exciting day of the year. And, Erin, why is that?Erin Conigliaro: 0:12

Because it’s NTRP ratings release night. Yes, so will you be up at 12 o’clock? Well, I won’t. But here’s what happens to me every year. So USTA sent out an email saying that today’s the 29th, so on the 30th they were going to release ratings. But what that really means and I’ve told a lot of people this is at midnight you can start clicking your phone and it’ll refresh, like I think they just really said, at midnight. And so what happens is I’ll probably go to bed at like a normal decent hour and then, if I wake up in the middle of the night, I’ll tell myself don’t grab your phone, don’t look at your phone and then I’ll do it anyway, and then I’ll be up for like two or three hours looking at what all of my friends have done or people that I’ve played in the past. I always like to know, like, if I got beat really bad, I’m like, oh, that person definitely is going to get bumped up. Yes, I don’t. I’m like, oh, it’s just a really bad loss.Carolyn Roach: 0:57

Yeah, like you’ll lose 6-0, 6-0. And you’re like oh of course this person will get bumped, and then they don’t get bumped.Erin Conigliaro: 1:02

Right, right. So although last year in Combo I went to Combo States and got beat terribly and both women that the beta, so it was a 4-0 and a 3-5, both of them got bumped One was a 4-5, one was 3-5.Carolyn Roach: 1:17

So it made you feel better.Erin Conigliaro: 1:18

It didn’t make you feel better. So in the middle of the night, when I’m looking at my phone, when I shouldn’t have I felt better about myself this year I’m not going to move anywhere. I mean, I guarantee, like I think I was, like I think the one thing that we say there’s a lot of complaints about NTRP ratings, I think, and we’ve talked a lot about it but I think one of the great things is we know that we’re playing people at our level.Carolyn Roach: 1:36

Yes.Erin Conigliaro: 1:37

Yes. So, and I think, Mike, your husband had a theory that’s like if you’re about 50-50 or about 500, like they say in baseball, if you’re winning and losing kind of like at the same rate, you’re at the right rating. That’s right, Right.Carolyn Roach: 1:52

So it’s just an exciting time to see what happens to everyone. And then you question am I any good at tennis after you see people that beat you badly not get bombed?Erin Conigliaro: 2:01

And so that’s a weird we asked that on a daily basis.Carolyn Roach: 2:03

Yes, yes.Erin Conigliaro: 2:06

I think and we talked about this the other day I would love for USTA to figure out a way to release ratings more than once a year, only because and I know that you have a theory that we heard from someone else and there’s a reason why they don’t do it, and I get it but I feel like the times we’re living in 2024, almost 2024, everything is data like everything’s data-driven. We have AI, everything now, like my business has a bunch of AI, like the numbers and the data is there. So why can’t we change the NTRP system to be more than once a year? But the reason, the counterargument, is what? Tell me? I know?Carolyn Roach: 2:42

Well, someone told us. Because I thought the same thing. I thought what they should do is that if you want to know your rating at any time during the year, they should charge you money and then they use that money to help people play tennis. Right different times Because for these crazy adult rec players they should charge a fee if you want to know your rating at any time during the year and then use that money to help people play in underprivileged areas which there is another system that does that.Erin Conigliaro: 3:07

So that’s a valid like that’s already tested and tried and tested. So I agree with that. But the other reason why is because why?Carolyn Roach: 3:15

Well, somebody told us that it would be even more of sandbagging. There’d be even more sandbagging because they would say oh, I just called. I looked at my number, I’m a 351. Tonight I’m gonna lose or I’m gonna not get, I’m not gonna win too many games.Erin Conigliaro: 3:29

So you’re saying so yeah, so people would just bag out on like they would just lose matches on purpose, If they wanted to say hey, I wanna stay a 35.Carolyn Roach: 3:38

So I know I need to lose a certain number of games, but I don’t know. I mean, are we really doing that? And it takes away, you know, I think some people do.Erin Conigliaro: 3:47

I would never. And I will say that, like you can say never, say never, I would never. Because I’ll tell you, I am sometimes more nervous when I’m up in a match. I constantly feel like this match is gonna turn around, I’m gonna lose. I don’t think I would be good at losing matches on purpose. I mean, I guess you could just go out there and throw it, which would be really not fun for you or your opponent and really like terrible sportsmanship in my opinion. But I know that people do it.Carolyn Roach: 4:13

Yeah, I don’t think people can do it. But tell me, if anybody does this and you’re at a three, five or below and you’re good enough to sandbag, let us know, because I never even really heard about it until like four. I where people were doing it intentionally. I can see where people you know they got put in the wrong level, they’re a self-rate and you know they didn’t know what they were. But where they’re like intentionally losing, hey, I’m gonna lose the second set and then know for sure that I can win that tie break.Erin Conigliaro: 4:42

Because I’m so much better.Carolyn Roach: 4:43

I would never. I mean there’d be no way I had enough skill to do it and you know I’m a middle level 4-0. So who are these people that are doing that? Are they high level 4-0s? Are they 4-5s, mainly, and above which? I’ve heard, at the 4-5 level there’s a lot.Erin Conigliaro: 5:01

So you’re saying a really good let’s say 4-0 is playing someone that they clearly know they can beat Like a low rated whatever, maybe even a 3-5 playing up, so they intentionally throw at least a set. You’re saying and then come back and say I’ll win the tie breaker, no problem.Carolyn Roach: 5:18

Yeah, I couldn’t do that either. I couldn’t do that. I mean, I don’t think I could do that against a 2-5.Erin Conigliaro: 5:22

Exactly as a 4-0.Carolyn Roach: 5:24

That I would definitely win the match.Erin Conigliaro: 5:25

Tie break if I was trying to do it that way. Sometimes I feel like even on my serve, if I serve one point and they get a point, I’m like, oh, they’re gonna come back, they’re gonna win this game.Carolyn Roach: 5:32

Yes, exactly. So this kind of turned into sandbagging. I don’t know how people do that, but let us know what you guys think. You guys are all over the country Like is sandbagging an issue, is it not? Is it self-rating an issue, is it not? Let us know.Erin Conigliaro: 5:45

We’d love to hear, and sorry, one more point before we go. There are areas of the country and we have several states in our section that do ratings earlier than like. Some people already know their rating. Like this is gonna be, they’ll release the ratings for a national, but some people have those early start things I forget what that early start leagues so they do know their rating ahead of time. So some people have already been bumped. You know that, right?Carolyn Roach: 6:11

No, I didn’t know they knew the rating ahead of time I thought they knew it or like you joined the team hoping that you then don’t get bumped like you’re in the right level, and if you do get bumped then you can’t play pass where you are.Erin Conigliaro: 6:25

The only reason I know this is because when I was at sectionals not playing, I wasn’t gonna play at sectionals. I was promoting the podcast at sectionals. There were people that had already been bumped. So like some people went to the tournament director and was really upset, Like a two-five was really upset that she was now facing a three-oh because her in the app she could already see that she was bumped a three-oh. But that’s the several states around the country, not all and it’s probably very few. They do what’s called an early start league and so they actually know and see their rating ahead of time. So some people already know what their rating is. Those of us in areas that don’t do that are just waiting to click on their phones, starting at midnight or tomorrow morning when they wake up.Carolyn Roach: 7:07

So wait. So if I joined an early start league, if I was in one of those places that have early start, I would already know my rating for 2024.Erin Conigliaro: 7:14

That is my understanding. Yes, 100%.Carolyn Roach: 7:17

Interesting I’ve never heard of that before.Erin Conigliaro: 7:19

That’s why tennis is interesting and that’s why we love talking to people around the country, because everyone does it differently. Like it’s USTA and it’s USTA leagues and it’s USTA run, and it goes from national to your state, to your local coordinators, and all that but rules on roster sizes, on your ratings, on everything else is so different all around the country.Carolyn Roach: 7:43

Yeah, I don’t read those rules, so I don’t know those at all, but I’m gonna learn them. Let’s learn them together.Erin Conigliaro: 7:48

Yeah, let’s do that all right, let’s see how people do if they go up or down tonight. Yeah, I’m excited.Carolyn Roach: 7:55

After recording this episode, it is clear we definitely need someone from USTA to speak with us who knows what they are talking about. If we said anything that is incorrect or you have anything to add, please let us know. You can message us on our website, which is SecondServePodcastcom. Thanks so much for listening and hope to see you on the courts soon. Whoey comments.