Welcome to a candid, laughter-filled exploration of tennis partnership dynamics with our guests Rachel and McKenzie, who pull back the curtain on their successful doubles relationship.
Ready to laugh, learn, and maybe pick up a few unconventional tennis tips along the way? Listen now and join the conversation about what makes doubles partnerships work on and off the court.
Here’s a Complete Transcript of our Conversation:
Carolyn 0:07
Hi, this is Carolyn and I’m here with Erin. And this is part three of our conversation with McKenzie and Rachel. In parts one and two, they gave us their double strategy that is effective. And in this episode, we just hear stories and laugh. So here it is.
Rachel 0:22
Sometimes I we one of
Introduction to Part Three
Rachel 0:24
our pros at CCC, she’s always like, don’t compliment your opponent because we both are we tend to be pretty complimentary. And you know, they’ll hit like a good serve, and we’re like, great shot, great shot. Or like, you know, you got it, girl. And they’re like, stop
Memorable Court Moments
Rachel 0:38
doing that. Like, you don’t need to like pump over the mods. And it’s very hard for us. Both of us still do that, and we try to like not do that as much as possible.
Erin 0:48
I disagree with your pro only because they are pros. They played, you know, their whole lives. Like, right. We’ve picked it up. Like you, McKenzie, I did not start playing until I was 40 years old. Right. I’m not gonna change my personality. I’m happy to be out on a court. I’m happy to be healthy enough to be out there playing. If I’m gonna say good shot to my opponent, it’s that’s just me. I’m just gonna say it.
Carolyn 1:08
I’m gonna stop saying it. I’m gonna stop saying it. That’s advice that I got. I’m gonna try. You’re gonna get bummed out. You’re gonna stop telling people how great they are.
McKenzie 1:17
That’s it. Well, we don’t know.
Carolyn 1:18
I’m gonna see if it helps me win. I’m gonna see if that helps me.
McKenzie 1:22
We can’t stop it. We we keep going. I mean, Rachel is so sweet, she’ll be up at the net and someone will miss about it and she’ll be like, You got it next time, girl. And like, we just can’t help it. Like, and Kes is like, let’s maybe not encourage her forget.
Carolyn 1:32
Style it down just a smidge. Right, right. That’s so funny. Do you have anything else
The Signal Confrontation
Carolyn 1:38
that’s your most memorable moment on the court? I’m gonna revolutionary about our match.
Rachel 1:44
Are you? I was gonna say our hat’s falling off, but okay. Go, go, go, you go. It’s about signals, it’s about signals. This is specific. That’s true. It really does kind of tie in. So our match earlier this week, we were playing two great opponents. First tri-level match of the season. Our first tri-level match, they were good players, and we knew we needed to win our court. You know, tri-level’s interesting. I love it because you get to play with all of your friends, but the pressure’s on to win your court every week. And we’re over there doing our signals, and one of our opponents just lost it. We’d already won the first set. Yeah, we won the first set, and we were on serve with my serve, and Kins came to the baseline just for a few seconds to remind me serve your backhand and go up the tea. I’m gonna go. Literally, that’s what it was. And our opponent lost it. And she goes, Do you need to talk? Do you need to talk? Do you need to have a play before everything? And I knew she was frustrated because they lost the first set, and we were both serving well. Our serves, you know, it was effective, it was a great service day, and she just couldn’t stop. She couldn’t let it go. She was very upset. And you were serving two, three. Yeah. And I just that’s when I kind of wanted to say is that situation, like, we’re all out, we’re all rec players. Well, we did say that. Rachel goes, I thought we were having a lovely match. Because we actually were like, we were having a you’ve played us, and you, Aaron, you and I played together, like we had a lovely match up until that point. And she said that. Rachel’s like, I thought we were having a lovely match, you know? And the lady goes, Well, we were. And now we’re not. Yeah. And we were like, okay, well, that’s fine. And honestly, it just refocused me. It was one of those moments that actually I probably could have started taking a nap for like two games. I probably would have like I kind of felt the focus go. And at that point, it was over. Rachel and I were like, okay, like let’s dialogue. Game on. Yeah. The last thing you want to do is don’t make McKinsey. Don’t say that. Don’t say that. That’s that’s a pro tip for anybody who’s in balance of McKinsey. You make me mad, and I get a pit in my stomach, and I’m like, look, yeah.
Carolyn 4:00
Well, that’s such a good response to have. Is that because I do the exact same thing. If somebody yells or is upset on the other side, I get like, oh no, they’re upset. But I think I should do what you guys did and McKinsey did, which is okay, if you’re upset, I’m gonna be even more focused.
Erin 4:16
And let me just throw this rule out there because we love rules. A friend of mine had this happen to her recently. The rule is that you go to the server’s pace. You guys weren’t doing that when they were serving. Exactly. You were doing it when you were serving.
Rachel 4:30
And she did say she was like, I’m gonna go look this up. And we were like, okay, that’s fine. Like, go ahead.
McKenzie 4:35
And then I said, ironically, I’m like, right now, because like at this point, now you’re delaying, like your whole point was that this is taking too long, and now you’re gonna like sit down for five minutes and look it up, but that’s fine. And we weren’t, we weren’t doing it on returns.
Carolyn 4:48
Yeah, you get 25 seconds between points too. It says in the rules that as well. And so it’s like, well, I’ve played you guys,
Tennis Etiquette and Compliments
Carolyn 4:56
you guys go quickly. It’s I hate when people people are frustrated and then they want to take it out on their opponents for something.
Erin 5:02
Yeah. Have you done any other tennis traveling together? Not necessarily like turn like tournaments or clinics, but how about other stuff?
Rachel 5:11
Well, we go to the US Open every year, and that’s so fun. Whoop whoop. I know you have too. Yes, yes, it is so fun. That’s our that’s our favorite. Yeah. If you get to go to a tournament like that, don’t forget to watch the doubles. I feel like so many people go and they go to the big stadium and they’re watching those singles matches. And Kinz and I actually bypassed who’s matching, who was playing? It was a huge singles match, and we sat it was Casper Roode was playing, and then it was Hadaj Maya, and she was playing against I think Makova or something. We didn’t even go in to watch. We sat and we watched the women’s doubles. Taylor Townsend. And we sat on the first row, nobody was in there. And we sat behind them and we watched how they moved. We actually got to hear them talk. We could have high-fived them. Yes, hear them talk at one point. I wanted to. And we were like, I’m sure they wouldn’t have minded us.
McKenzie 6:07
We’re actually bad luck.
Erin 6:08
Oh, it’s Mackenzie and Rachel.
McKenzie 6:09
Hi friends. Here they are.
Rachel 6:11
But it was so great to sit there and watch women’s doubles up close and see how they communicate with each other. And they crack the ball. When our husbands weren’t around, would we just like get on the phone at 8:30 and go, hey, what are we watching? And it would be some random, you know, tournament, like the Mexico or like whatever tournament. I’d be like, hey, okay, turn on Sigmund and you know, Rachel would be, okay, okay, pause it, pause it. And she’d go on and we’d watch the plays together. And that’s just like we would have our cup and have our little tea and go around and watch these points and talk about what they’re doing. And no, like we are nowhere near that level. Obviously, we will never ever hit the ball like these ladies, but like some of the strategy still resonates and it still applies and it’s still super relevant in our matches. And we’ll even say it, we’ll go, hey, remember that time that they, you know, those people lined up both back and they went I or whatever. And we’ll go, let’s just try it. And it just keeps it so fun. I mean, that’s the biggest thing.
Erin 7:06
I like watching doubles on TV and watching their signals. And I, as a viewer, know what they’re gonna do. Right. Like, oh, I’ve done that signal before. Yes, exactly.
Carolyn 7:15
And you guys are really nice and really fun to play against. I will say, as somebody that’s played against you as an opponent, I mean, we went into a match tie break, and I think Kinzie double faulted the first serve. Like she served first
Watching Pro Doubles
Carolyn 7:29
and it was a double fault. And instead of being like upset, she walked over, she and she said something like, I should have just given you guys that point. I don’t know why we wasted time. You know, it was something so funny. And I was like, oh man, they’re super, you know, they’re having a good time out here. You can tell you guys are having a good time.
Rachel 7:45
Like sometimes people do say, like, we loved watching you because we really are ridiculous out there. I mean, at the member gas, we ended up being on stadium court. Okay, it was so windy. Did y’all play in that? Were you all there? Yeah, you were there. Everyone was there. She was beside us. Right. It was crazy windy. And there was one point that I I will say, I will try to get to every single ball. I don’t know what’s gonna happen when I get there, but I’m gonna hustle for that ball. So I was sprinting forward. My visor flies off. It’s so windy. I get the ball, the point keeps going. It was like a very, a very good point. I hear Rachel coming up behind me. She hits another ball, whatever. We end up winning the point.
McKenzie 8:20
And I turn around and her hat’s on the ground, my visor’s on the ground. So both of our headwear fell off in the middle of the point, and there was like 10 people up there just watching and cracking up because I’m sure we’ve like when the absolute hats off. We just we left it all in the court, as they say.
Carolyn 8:39
Oh, that’s fantastic. I love that.
Rachel 8:41
You can tell her earlier trick. When you get nervous, no, okay. When Ken’s gets nervous, like in a tie break, she’ll pull her earlibs down. She’s like, pull your earlibs down. We won’t put this on, Kenzie. We probably unless we’re paying attention. It’s a real thing. It is a body connection. Y’all, the therapist told me to do it. In that match, in that elite eight match, I look back during the tie break, and she’s got both of her hands on her ear, and she’s just yanking my ear. I’m like, okay, here we go.
Carolyn 9:19
It is a real thing though. If you’re tense, you pull your earlobes down and it releases it and makes you less tense. I mean, that’s what my therapist says. I’m gonna do it. I’m gonna do it. Right. I’m gonna use that. Yes.
McKenzie 9:35
I mean, I haven’t ever Googled it. I haven’t fact-checked her, but I trust her with a lot of things. So I feel like I had to go with that one.
Rachel 9:42
But yes, you will. It’s not you make it sound like I do it all the time, like I have like a tick or something.
McKenzie 9:47
But like you may see me at the baseline tugging, especially if I’m serving.
Erin 9:51
Carolyn’s always looking for winning strategies.
Carolyn 9:54
Yeah, or tips. I mean, I’m not complimenting my opponents. I’m gonna be pulling my earl up. I’m gonna be trying to do that. Yeah.
Rachel 10:01
We just were told not to, but we actually really do continue to compliment people and try to lift them up. Like, especially it’s so hard. If someone’s having a bad day out there and like they’re hitting a couple double faults, like Rachel and I both would be like, You got this girl, like we just can’t help it.
Carolyn 10:14
So okay, I’ll still compliment then. But I’m gonna definitely do the earlier thing. I’ve never heard that. I’m gonna do that.
Rachel 10:20
How about don’t do this though? When somebody says multiple times in a match, that barely caught the tape. This drives Rachel crazy. Just got on the back of the line there.
Erin 10:31
I’m like, Yeah, okay.
Rachel 10:32
They want you to know that they are the most fair line caller. Fair.
Erin 10:36
That’s when you know. Did we talk about it? I feel like I just had this conversation. That’s when you know that they’re really not calling the ball.
Rachel 10:43
That they’re waiting to call out your ball on a big plane that actually clipped the tape. And you’ll go, gosh, but she was so fair. It must have really been out. And you’re like, okay. Yeah. Yeah. There was one match in particular that drove Rachel
The Earlobe Trick for Tension
Rachel 10:57
absolutely insane. Uh-huh.
Erin 10:59
I can’t imagine you being her being upset at all.
Carolyn 11:02
Yeah, I can’t imagine you guys being upset just because you’re so friendly and nice out there and having such a good time.
Rachel 11:08
So if I get upset, Ken’s dials it back. Yeah. We really do have a yan and yang. Like I got real mad about that the other day when the lady got was upset with Rachel for taking extra time during the point. It actually really did bother me. And I I I could not even actually be nice at that point. I was not ugly, but I was not. I was done. I really was like, this is it. I’m over it. And it didn’t bother Rachel as much as it bothered me. And usually she’s the one that gets annoyed about stuff. She looks at me and she goes, Why is this not bothering you? It bothered me. It didn’t bother me. She goes, Why is this not bothering you right now? And I’m like, Meg. But thank God I did it because we couldn’t both be upset out there. Exactly. Right. That’s true. And we do tend to know that. So like the double bounce. Oh my god, the double bounce. What happened with the double bounce? Like in a tie, another tie break. And I do say, like, we give people a lot of grace for the double bounce. Absolutely. Because sometimes you think you you think you got it, right? And you really feel like you scooped it up. And you have to call it on yourself. It’s your call at the end of the day. And we were in a tiebreak on hardcore. I personally think it’s easier to call a double bounce on yourself on clay. But I got to a ball. I knew I got there. Also, I will say Rachel is like the most honest person in the world, and like a hundred percent would have called it on herself, no questions asked. And I mean, and they wanted to argue about it. They felt like she was a double bounce, and Rachel was like, I got that ball. They came to the net and they it was a big thing. It was a long discussion. And I was like, you know what? Fine, take the point. And I could not move past. That’s the other thing. Like, I want to encourage rec players, like, don’t give a point away. Like, I feel like we do that all the time. And then it throws us off. Like, you’re you’re gonna throw yourself off. We in fact we played a match, it was a great forum match, a great forum match the other day at North Hills, and the people were awesome, you know, just it it was just a very athletic, good match. It wasn’t like a whole lot of chatting or anything like that. But this one the woman hit a great serve, I returned it, and she just caught my return. And we were like, What happened? And she gave her hand. She goes, Oh, I thought you said out, and we were like, Nobody said out. And so someone was watching and said, Oh, I think it was the court behind you. And her partner goes, Oh, okay, so second serve. And I was like, I’m so sorry, but no, like that’s our point. And I think we ended up winning the game pretty quickly after that. And and I felt horrible. And I walked over to her after and I was like, I really wanted to give you that point. I wanted to give you that chance again to give
Dealing with Difficult Opponents
Rachel 13:55
a second serve, you know. Like, I I want you to know that I wanted to, but I also know that I shouldn’t have done that because in the past I have done that. And then if I lose that point, I get really upset with myself, and then we would have ended up losing the game. And I have my partner to think about, and like, because I really wanted to give it to her. I wanted to go, just go again, girl. It’s fine, you know, but it it wasn’t fine. So we’ve we have learned to like just stick to the rules and don’t go overboard to because it ends up hurting us, it ends up hurting our our like mental state. And we’ve lost matches because we’ve been like, okay, fine, take the point. Fine, take the point. Yeah, yes, I’ve done that too. I’ve done that too. I’m sure you have. You’re so nice.
Erin 14:32
I’m sure. And we’ve we’ve talked about this a lot. The problem is this if you’re the rule enforcer and we know the rule, we’re not experts, but because of doing this for so many years now, we’ve learned a lot about rules. We’ve talked about rules that are weird, things we want to change, all kinds of stuff. But again, we don’t know every rule, but we know a lot of them. And it’s the problem is that when we stick to the rules, if somebody else doesn’t want to follow the rule because they’re trying to be, you know, just, oh, it’s just wreck tennis, whatever, then you, as the rule enforcer, look like the jerk. But the rules are there for a reason, right? That’s happened so many times. And I will tell you, in that situation specifically, I can absolutely remember several times that I have played tennis over the last 13 years that I thought I heard an outcall too, and I either stopped playing or didn’t hit a ball or whatever. But I immediately, because I’m also a rule follower and I like to also be the rule implementer or make sure other people I feel like it’s an injustice when people don’t follow rules. And so because I’m such a rule follower, I expect that people will do that too. And they don’t, right? They don’t like to follow rules when it doesn’t work for them, right? And I have said that’s your point, like giving up that point because I made the mistake. But let me tell you how many times that doesn’t happen on the flip side. 100%. Um it’s frustrating and it’s it’s frustrating as a captain, you know. Again, like I’ve had to forfeit courts because we’ve made a mistake either on a time or a player’s been late, or you know, whatever it is. And I’m like, that that’s why there’s a rule book. But man, when it when it happens to the other team, no. Oh, it’s just wreck tennis. We’re just here to have fun, aren’t we just here to play a match? It’s like, yeah, on time. We’re here to play a match on time, and on this date that we’re, you know, that sort of thing. So it’s it’s frustrating. But you know, I mean, I I know you guys well enough to know I’m 90% of our matches are all pretty friendly, but those 10% stick out.
Rachel 16:19
They do, they do, and it’s unfortunate. And I mean, that’s that’s one thing that we it it does kind of bother us when people get really upset out there, you know, and we kind of we want to like Rachel and I’s tendency is to kind of like try to mitigate that however we can, but but also Kins and I, we say this all the time we learn more from those situations from either a conflict on the court or from a loss than we do from easy pleasant matches, right? You learn more about you as a player. We improve more when we lose because we can reflect on that match and say, okay, what did we not do? What did we struggle? I like the matches that we win, actually. Yeah, you mean too.
McKenzie 16:58
I like to reflect back on those.
Rachel 17:00
Look, there’s nobody who has a harder time letting the walls go than me. But that’s true, despite what she says.
McKenzie 17:09
She’s like, it’s all so fun. And she gets some cards she calls, but she’s like, I can’t let it go.
Erin 17:13
It’s like three hours later. Wake up in the middle of the night and not be able to go back to sleep.
McKenzie 17:17
Yeah, I’ve been like in the middle of the match.
Learning from Losses
McKenzie 17:20
I’ll go, why?
Rachel 17:21
Like, I’ll take a ball. I do have no business taking the ball.
McKenzie 17:24
Why? It’s like a little haunt me.
Rachel 17:29
But you do learn more from your losses. Yeah, that’s true. That’s true.
Erin 17:34
Carolyn, have you learned a lot this season?
Carolyn 17:36
I’m getting a PhD this season.
McKenzie 17:38
It’s been oh my gosh. I don’t know.
Carolyn 17:43
Watch out next year.
Rachel 17:44
That’s right, 2026. You just keep hitting that appeal button. Don’t even sweat it.
Carolyn 17:49
I am. That’s I am. Just wait.
Rachel 17:52
Well, I’m gonna, I mean, I’m gonna have to go this season, really. This this was a freshman season for me at 4.0.
Erin 17:59
I mean, just getting bumped, yeah. Yeah, did your phone stop ringing after you got bumped to 4-0? They’re like, oh, it’s like the you know, you went from the best 3-5 everybody wanted you to like, what is my phone working?
Carolyn 18:11
Tri-level, you guys are on tri-level, but like, oh, not tri-level anymore. Sorry.
Rachel 18:16
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s really gonna be a struggle.
McKenzie 18:20
Combo’s gonna be great. We have a strong, we have two combo teams today. I mean, it’s gonna be great. I can’t wait. It’s gonna be epic.
Erin 18:27
Yeah, but yeah, it’s true though. Your phone stops, you know, for a couple years when you’re at the top, top echelon of rating. Oh, yeah, girl. Uh-huh. Yeah, McKenzie’s still a commodity.
McKenzie 18:41
I got like five more months left on this clock.
Carolyn 18:46
We really
Final Thoughts and Closing
Carolyn 18:47
appreciate Mackenzie and Rachel coming on the podcast. And I’ve realized I’m one of those people that have said previously, oh, that just hit the line. So I’m gonna make sure to stop doing that because now I realize that annoys some people. So I’m gonna stop. I’m learning a lot from this podcast. Thanks so much for listening and hope to see you on the court soon.
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