What do you do if your opponent thinks you called the ball out but you didn’t? What if someone touches the net? Does it matter if the ball is still in play? What happens if a ball hits a portable scoreboard? Do Carolyn and Erin have a problem and are thinking about these situations too much? =)

Thanks again to Leah for all these great questions!

Here’s a Complete Transcript of our Conversation:

Introduction to Rules Part Two
Carolyn 0:06

Hi, this is Carolyn and I’m here with Erin. And this is part two of our episode about rules. In part one, we talked about hindrances and whether you can call let in different situations. But here is part two.

Erin 0:18

So um this has to do with a short ball. So my opponent hit a short ball. I yelled up, like for her opponent for her partner to move up to the short ball. I do this all the time. The lady got mad at me for saying that. She thought I called the ball out,

Short Ball Confusion and Verbal Cues
Erin 0:34

but she said the word up. Okay. So the lady lost the point and was mad about it. And she said, My partner and I took the point because we hit the winner and we moved on after listening to her complain. But that’s the ball is moving towards her and her partner. She’s allowed to say up. Yes. And I will tell you, I can’t normally say Erin. You normally so the short ball thing isn’t quite as much of an issue with me, but I do talk a lot to my partner on the court when the ball is coming towards us. Um and oftentimes I say you, yours, you know, something like that. And I have actually had a partner say, Oh, I thought somebody called the ball out. And I said, No, I’m sorry, I said yours or, you know, whatever. And we’ve conceded the point because we’ve stopped play and it’s our fault for hearing incorrectly. And I’ve also heard that on I’ve actually served before, thought somebody called my ball out, did not play and lost the point. And actually it was an outcall from another court. I just thought it was on my own court. And I have conceded the point. And that’s what you’re supposed to do. But instead, people get mad and say, I want to replay that. I thought, blah, blah, blah. Well, you can’t think. You have to play what’s in play, I guess. So I’ve conceded many points because I thought somebody made a call that they didn’t make. I just heard it from a different court. And that’s just part of the game. That’s right.

Carolyn 1:57

That’s right.

Erin 1:58

I try to say that’s why I asked you the question earlier. When do you replay a point? Because I feel like I remember Rebel saying there are very, very few times in rec tennis that you should be replaying points. The problem is, is that it is a courtesy sport. And he said sometimes to our fault, where we just go, oh, well, it’s just to replay the point. Sometimes that’s to diffuse an argument. And sometimes it’s just because everybody’s just being nice and is like, oh, just replay, you know. But really, there are very few times you should replay the point. Yes, I agree. Okay, touching the net. This is a good one. This is a really good one. So the opponent ran up to the net, put away a volley, like an angled volley off the court, and touched the net after contact. She immediately said, I touched the net. Her partner then argued,

Touching the Net During Play
Erin 2:47

tried to argue that it was still their point because she had played the ball and her opponents didn’t get to it. The problem is she admitted to touching the net right after she hit, you know, what they would have called a winner, right? So she hits an angle volley, but immediately says, I touched the net. So she has to concede that point. Her partner tried to argue that she did not concede that point because she hit the ball for a winner. But the rule is the ball has to bounce twice. So even if she did a crazy good angle volley off the court, her opponents hypothetically could have still made a play on that ball because the ball hadn’t bounced twice.

Carolyn 3:30

The ball wasn’t dead yet. The ball is not dead net before the ball was dead. Even if she hit like what would be a winner.

Erin 3:38

A quote unquote winner. The ball does not know that the ball is a winner until the ball bounces twice. And then the ball knows that the ball is dead. So the woman who touched the net and admitted it, her partner tried to argue that it doesn’t matter that she touched the net because we hit a winner. That is incorrect.

Carolyn 3:54

Yes. So it matters whether or not the ball is still in play. That’s the question that needed to be asked. When you hit that net, was that ball still in play? If it was not still in play, then it doesn’t matter that you hit the net. But if it was still in play, then you you have to concede the point.

Erin 4:10

And still in play is until the ball is dead, which is when the ball bounces two times on your side. Yes. Okay, scoreboard. So we just talked about, we just talked about a ball hitting a permanent fixture, right? Like a scoreboard or a light pole or you know, something like that. So the interesting thing is we had a follow-up that said, I play on courts that has a scoreboard that is part of a net. Like it literally permanently, it’s a permanent fixture on the net, but it is a scoreboard. It’s not netting, it’s not, you know, the white tape at the top, it is literally a scoreboard. And so I actually reached out to Rebel on this

Scoreboards and Permanent Fixtures
Erin 4:52

specifically and sent him a few photos, one of which was literally a scoreboard that was part of the net. And he said, if that, if the ball hits that scoreboard and dribbles over to the other side for a winner, it is part of the net itself. Like, even though it’s a scoreboard, because it is a permanent fix onto on the net itself. That that is not a permanent, I mean that that’s a permanent fixture, so that’s a that’s that’s so it’s like part of the net.

Carolyn 5:18

Part of the net. Part of the net. It’s not over on the side, it’s part of the net.

Erin 5:22

It’s on the webbing or whatever you want to call that part of the net.

Carolyn 5:25

Okay.

Erin 5:25

But you and I talked about, so I have one of those little flipper cards. You know, you get them on Amazon, 30 bucks, you know, whatever they are, and you stick it on top of the net and you flip the. I just played with one the other night and actually her my opponent and I had this question. So that is sitting on the net. Also, Rebel’s email back to me was that is also part of part of the net. So if you hit a ball, like a flat, you know, flat ball and it and it hits that scoreboard, that score flipper card and lands in my opponent’s court for a winner, that’s okay. But what he explained was it’s what’s not okay to hit a scoreboard is if it if it’s like a pole that comes out, you know, vertically, kind of sits in the air. If a ball hits that and lands in someone’s court for a quote winner, it is the ball is dead. Okay. Does that make sense?

Carolyn 6:16

Yes, but I I would so I totally agree with like it’s a built-in scoreboard, it’s part of the net. It kind of doesn’t go over the net. That kind of makes sense. I always take my portable scoreboard and put it beside the court.

Erin 6:29

I don’t actually put it like all the way at the very, very, very end of the net where you would think.

Carolyn 6:35

No, I don’t even, I just take it and put it on the side of the court. Do you put it on the net?

Erin 6:39

I do put it on the net because I never really thought about this until we talked about it recently.

Carolyn 6:43

Because what’s the difference between that portable scoreboard and putting my towel on top of the net? Like I wouldn’t think for your hat. I’m just gonna put my hat on the net. You know what? I’m just gonna do that. So, and I know people do it, but I think that would cause an issue. That’s interesting. If someone hits it, and it may just be like a an academic question. Like, I don’t think, you know, like can you really hit it? What does it really get hit and then would dribble over versus not? But I think there’s a possibility. So I always put that.

Erin 7:13

You know what I think this is? I think this is you and I thinking about these questions too much. I agree. Eric. I could come up with like, well, what if I, you know, hung my hat on the side of the net?

Carolyn 7:26

Or what if I hit the hat?

Erin 7:28

Yeah, what if I have a backpack and I just, you know what? I don’t want to put it on the ground because there’s ants. I’m just gonna hang my bag on the. I know.

Carolyn 7:37

That’s exactly right. That’s exactly right.

Erin 7:40

Yeah, so I wrote, I was just looking at my email to Rebel, and I said we re-released our rules episode. Someone reached out with a question that we couldn’t answer. So he said, if the scoreboard is affixed to the net or hung over it, I would consider it to be part of the net, and a ball hitting it would be considered to have hit the net. Note this does not include scoring devices that extend from the net posts.

Carolyn 8:05

Okay, I disagree with Rebel on the portable.

Erin 8:08

Okay.

Carolyn 8:09

But nobody cares what I think, so it doesn’t matter. Right, right. I agree with Rebel on everything else, and I’ll always defer to Rebel, but I I think that an easy fix is like put it to the side or right.

Erin 8:20

But then why would they why would they make them that way? They literally are made to sit on a net. Yeah, and the display I think you’re gonna have to concede this one, Carolyn.

Carolyn 8:28

I you know what? I may have to. I may have to, but I will say if I or my opponent hit the scoreboard, that scoreboard that somebody put on that net, let’s just say they hit that top little ring, the little wire part, yeah, it would change the trajectory of that ball. And if it went over, I think I probably would say, even though incorrectly, I guess, based on what Rebel’s saying, I would say you hit the scoreboard, I win the point.

Erin 8:56

You know what? I hit a pretty flat ball. I think I’m just gonna start hanging stuff on the net and seeing what I can if I could hit an object for a winner. You know what else? I’m not that skilled. I couldn’t hit that if I tried if I hit a million balls at it. That’s true.

Carolyn 9:10

That’s true. I made this so this is maybe where we’re thinking about these things too much. But I do want anyone listening, if we said anything that you think is incorrect or you have additional comments, please let us know because we love hearing from everyone.

Erin 9:24

People will think we said something incorrect. Guaranteed emails.

Carolyn 9:29

So we have the thing is Erin runs the social media for second serve. And so she’s the one that gets all the yeah, you’re wrong, that’s not right, all those sort of emails. So thank you, Erin.

Erin 9:41

So, and again, 99% are positive, positive comments, which we love hearing from people. But every once in a while it’s like, nope, nope, you’re wrong.

Carolyn 9:51

Yes.

Erin 9:52

Here’s another one. This is good. She said, last night the server’s partner lined up in Australian or I formation. Then they insisted that we replay the point because she said we didn’t mean to line

I-Formation Disputes and Episode Wrap-up
Erin 10:08

up that way. No. You either won the point that way or you lost the point that way.

Carolyn 10:15

But there’s a lot of stuff I didn’t mean to do after the fact. There’s a lot.

Erin 10:19

Most of the stuff on the court I didn’t mean to do.

Carolyn 10:22

Can we replay that point? But it’s funny what you hear out on an adult rec tennis court. Thanks again to Leah for sending in all these great questions. We are going to do another episode soon where we’ll go over roles USTA players should know based on all the emails we received from those episodes, and we really appreciate everyone who sent an email. We hope you check out our website, which is secondsurfodcast.com. Thanks so much for listening and hope to see you on the court soon.

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