What are we saying on the podcast that our guest Gin believes is incorrect? We may be giving the wrong advice (or are we just nice)?

In this episode Gin doesn’t hold back on her thoughts about the contentious issue of claiming a first serve after minor disturbances. Is it fair or just a sneaky way to gain an upper hand? Gin compares this to the absurdity of retaking a missed free throw in basketball, sparking a lively discussion on the need for clearer guidelines. Together, we uncover how the lack of clarity in rules can lead to frustration and inconsistency on the court.

Here’s A Complete Transcript of Our Conversation

Speaker 2: 0:06

Hi, this is Carolyn and I’m here with Erin, and this is part two of our episode with Jen on annoying or irritating situations. Jen was a self-rated three five and she is now a five. Oh, if you’d like to hear more situations that we think are annoying or irritating, please check out part one. But here’s part two.Speaker 1: 0:25

I have. I have another one, and this is one that is um, as a fan of the podcast. I have heard you both discuss this, you know, a few times and y’all are on the same side of the issue, but I mean, I feel like I’ve actually almost like yelled friendly, yelled at you guys, um, on the podcast, even though you can’t hear me while she’s in in her car, yeah, riding along listening to you guys and being so frustrated. I am on the opposite side of the giving a first serve. If a ball, you know, if there’s a minor disturbance that drives me up the wall and I do believe a lot of people use that as a strategy such as, you know, if I think it really, I think doing that, if it’s not clear what I’m talking about, you know if, if, if I think it really, I think doing that, if it’s, if it’s not clear what I’m talking about, you know many, many ladies especially that I play with, I feel like if any little tiny disturbance happens after a first serve, they will first take another first serve.Speaker 2: 1:16

take first serve you know between the first and second, so they haven’t started serving the second serve. But something happens like a ball rolls in between the first and second serve.Speaker 1: 1:24

Or I mean, I feel like it’s just sometimes like just ridiculous. Like even if someone’s like oh, I just speaks, I just feel like it can become very out of hand. But I believe you know that it’s. It’s to me it’s like in basketball, you know, if someone misses their first free throw and then you know someone runs on the court and you have to tackle them and take them out, it’s not like they say, okay, we’re going back, we’re going to do another first free throw. No, they missed the first free throw. Like they missed the first serve. Like they don’t get another first serve.Speaker 3: 1:51

That’s true. When you say it like that, I actually am going to say I’m going to agree with you. So we had a friend who was maybe at the state championship, maybe she was just in local league, I don’t know. She had a ball, she served a first serve. She missed it. She had a ball roll over. Someone picked it up, someone came over to her court, talked to her, had a full conversation with her, walked back over to their court and then she looked at her opponents thinking they were going to say first serve and they didn’t, and then she missed her second serve, right, carolyn?Speaker 2: 2:17

Yeah, it was at the state championship and it was the match point.Speaker 3: 2:30

And it was like there’s nowhere in the rules book that says you are required to give some even if they’ve had a full conversation.Speaker 2: 2:36

No, well, so I think he did. So I’ve talked to him more about this because I have an issue. And he did say in that situation but we’ll have him double check what I’m saying If someone comes over and talks to you from another court, then you should say it’s an outside interference for serve, it’s different than if on the ball rolls in like different if somebody comes over and talks to you versus a ball rolling in.Speaker 2: 3:01

And you’ve been rolling it back, yeah, but also, rebel says why are you entitled? Why do you think you’re entitled to this first serve? Right, you’re not entitled to like. He said exactly what Jen’s saying, which is, you’re not entitled to flow. You’re not entitled to a flow between your first and second serve. But I think the way the rule is written is wrong, because then I think that’s great, everybody should play that way, and we don’t.Speaker 3: 3:28

It’s just like Jen said, I mean it’s unsubjective, it’s from two five to three five.Speaker 2: 3:32

If a ball rolled in for us between the first and second serve, somebody gives you a first serve, ok, your opponent’s done that Then when it happens to them like do you then say second serve, yeah, Just stare at them.Speaker 1: 3:47

Well, and I think I do think it’s what Erin just said it’s the gray area, because I agree that if you know there are extremely you know something that might happen once every five matches you play type situation where someone comes in and talks to you or there’s some, you know, huge. You know someone gets really injured two courts down and everyone, I mean absolutely you know huge. You know someone gets really injured two courts down and everyone, I mean absolutely, you know, you, you, I would say you know first serve. Let’s start this point. But what I have found in ladies tennis is just any. Look, you know, a ball rolls over you just quickly hit it back. I mean you didn’t like I don’t think everybody on my court saw what happened it wasn’t a disturbance.Speaker 1: 4:19

But the person’s like well, do I get a first serve. You know Right and so I think it’s become. It’s just like what is intended to be. You know kind of a nice thing has just to me gotten really, really out of hand, and so now it’s just like first serves are being thrown out every yes, just I mean I can’t even, you know, think yeah every time and it’s a real if you know, if you’re playing someone with a very strong first serve, you know it really puts you at a disadvantage.Speaker 1: 4:42

And I and I you know I don’t necessarily have like a really strong first serve, and so I’m like you know this this is, you know, a strategic advantage for this person and I do think people watch for it. You know I have watched people miss that second serve and then and then like maybe there’s a ball that’s questionable, like it’s it’s settled, but they they go back to it and return it to the next court even though they could have left it.Speaker 2: 5:03

And I’m like oh, they missed their first serve.Speaker 1: 5:05

They missed their first serve, so let’s say I’m playing Aaron and she’s missed her first serve and there’s a ball behind her that belongs to the next court over. But it’s settled, it’s, it’s there, it doesn’t belong to us, but she could just serve her second serve. But she that ball. And now she looks at me like well, don’t I get a first serve? And I’m like no, absolutely not, like you didn’t need to go back and get that, and so I think it’s kind of used.Speaker 2: 5:32

I’m not saying Aaron, I’ve never seen Aaron do that, but you know, I think people have done that. Yeah, you know what? Then I think the rule should be you never get a first serve Second, oh no first serve, first serve, like if you miss your first serve you never Like between the first and second, whatever happens. Yeah, it could be a five-minute conversation.Speaker 3: 5:52

I could be convinced.Speaker 2: 5:53

I just need a consistent, clear rule yes, and.Speaker 1: 5:57

I don’t feel like we have that.Speaker 2: 5:58

Yes.Speaker 1: 5:59

Or I think we could solve it by saying agreed with you, or you only get a first serve if there is a egregious or whatever word they wanted to use.Speaker 2: 6:08

But what’s the definition of egregious? I know it’s awkward, I play some people that would say, hey, the ball rolling in is egregious to me. Yeah, yeah, I guess you’re right.Speaker 3: 6:17

So let’s tack on to that. This is also annoying when you’re playing and your ball rolls onto another court and you’re serving whatever and that the that court just rolls the ball back on as you’re playing out of point and then you have to call. You have to start all over again.Speaker 1: 6:32

I’m like.Speaker 3: 6:33

I know that’s kind of etiquette too, but like do you not see, I see some people trying to roll it to the back of their court, like just to get it off their own court to that other. But either wait for I mean what’s the typical shot in our tennis, three or four shots Either wait until they’re done playing but. I’ve had people roll the ball over as we’re playing. I’m like do you not understand tennis etiquette?Speaker 3: 6:56

I had somebody that like hold on to the ball until we’re done playing and then maybe get our attention and then give it back to us.Speaker 1: 7:02

I was playing a singles match this summer at the club and I had a ball rolled behind our court. So it was, the ball had rolled two courts over. I was the court in between the ball, where it had rolled and where it belonged. And they actually picked up the ball during our point. We were playing a singles point, long point, and someone lobbed it over our court Just and not like at the base, like I’m just like over, like the middle of the court, just high, but it was a very high lob and it was pretty, pretty accurate. So it didn’t land on our corner and we actually played through it. I mean we kind of laughed. That’s funny, but yeah, that’s, that’s probably not a good tendency.Speaker 3: 7:38

No, probably not. I mean, I guess better than rolling it, like if somebody had gone to the net and then they try to roll it across quickly or something. But yeah, that’s crazy, yeah.Speaker 2: 7:48

So much with balls, I know.Speaker 3: 7:52

So I’ve actually. So another annoying thing I find is people that will captain teams, which I appreciate people captaining teams. But sometimes people captain teams so that they don’t have to play certain matches. Yes, or they get to pick their partners. Like they pick the. They’re all, they’re only going to partner with the best person on the whole team, like you can tell, like that’s the reasoning for captain captain not just because it’s like out of the goodness of their heart, but because they’re like I’m only going to play these matches against these teams and only with this partner. Yes, but I mean, I guess that’s what you get to do if you get to captain, right?Speaker 2: 8:26

This kind of goes back. I’ve had it where I don’t know if the receiver’s ready or not, Like for an entire match. They’re not like in a ready position, they just kind of are looking to the side, and so I’ve played someone before and I don’t know if my game was just so boring and my serve was so slow that they’re like I don’t even need to be in a ready position. Have you guys had that?Speaker 3: 8:53

I’ve had someone that like, literally her ready position is her racket is down on the ground. She’s just standing there like hands, you know, neck on her side, and I’m literally like should I serve now, like she’s been my partner before too years ago? But I’m like, should I serve now Like she’s been my partner before too years ago? But I’m like, should I serve, are you? Do you have something going on, you know? But opponents not necessarily If they’re looking bored. Then I’m starting to think same thing you do, carolyn. Like maybe I’m just not good enough to be playing them, yeah, but I’m like, are you ready?Speaker 2: 9:23

Because you know you go at the server’s pace. But I’m like, are you ready?Speaker 3: 9:27

Because you know you go at the server’s pace but the person has to be ready.Speaker 1: 9:28

Jen would just serve the ball right. No-transcript. Is that where?Speaker 3: 9:56

you’re, you know, is that where you’re going to?Speaker 1: 9:58

stand and she’s like yeah, and so I served it at Aster, I mean, and I didn’t even serve hard, I was just like I guess I’ll serve a wide, yeah, I mean I served kind of down the middle and at Aster and she looked very confused, but then the rest of the match she stood like in a standard spot. So I’m I’m to this day not sure what went on there, but that was weird.Speaker 2: 10:18

Yeah, I think all tennis players are a little weird.Speaker 3: 10:22

The other one.Speaker 2: 10:22

I have people apologizing for how they’re playing. So I had someone apologize it was the first set and I won pretty easily and they were like I’m sorry I’m playing so badly or poorly and they’ll give reasons. And then they end up beating me. They win the second set, they win match tiebreaker. That’s annoying to me. Don’t give reasons for why you’re playing poorly, especially because then I’m like I think I took my foot off the gas a little bit and then she ended up winning. Yep.Speaker 3: 10:54

Remember our friend Tara said we’ve talked about this with her when someone says, oh, you know, like, if they’ve lost the match and they’re like sorry, I played so bad, or they have an excuse or whatever, tara just goes, it’s okay and she walks away Because bad, or they have an excuse or whatever, tara just goes, it’s okay, and then she walks away Because, you know, usually I’m trying to like be like no, we had some great points.Speaker 2: 11:10

A lot went to deuce, Like you even try to make it, the score doesn’t reflect the game.Speaker 3: 11:13

The games. Yeah whatever it is, and but Tara’s just like it’s okay, and then she just leaves.Speaker 2: 11:19

Jen, have you had anything like that for people, or do they just get frustrated playing you?Speaker 1: 11:23

I’ve had people say lots of really wild things to me. Yes, I mean, I’ve had people tell me that the next level was going to hate me. You know, when I was about, they believed about to bump up to four or five. You know, I played someone and she said the four fives are going to hate you. I’ve had people come out on the court drinking a beer because they felt, like you know, this match wasn’t going to be competitive. Like you know, this match wasn’t going to be competitive. They were kind of sacrificing themselves. And you know, I’ve definitely had people say let’s get this over with and you know, at the beginning of the match, let’s get this over with.Speaker 1: 11:55

Yeah, and you know, I think people often have come on the court having looked at like my record or my rating and sort of felt like well, no one’s going to beat her. But you know, then they start hitting with me and they’re like gosh, you know, I can actually play and but I’ve definitely had a lot of people come on the court kind of just defeated and with some strange attitudes. But I don’t know that. You know so much the telling me I have had a lot of excuses. Actually, you’re right.Speaker 1: 12:18

People do people give you weird. You know we’re all kind of weird stuff.Speaker 3: 12:22

Yeah, like I haven’t hit you know, oh, I just came back from victory. Like we don’t need to know any of that. Or like if someone just beats you in doubles and then they’re like um, oh, we’ve never played together before, have you guys? You know how many times have you played? It’s like oh, thanks.Speaker 1: 12:35

I get a lot of. I usually play doubles you know if I’m playing singles against someone.Speaker 2: 12:39

People are like I’m not that before too, when I’ve lost, I’ve been like yeah, this isn’t singles, isn’t for me.Speaker 3: 12:46

Like I’m not my jam.Speaker 2: 12:48

I’ve said some of these things, but I also realized that and remember how Jen you said you’re a little neurotic, where you have the thing you do, which is you run to get the ball before the server serves. I don’t understand how you do that. I do something I realized. I’m a little crazy too. I’m crazy no-transcript. Are you guys that way?Speaker 3: 13:14

Do you want to hold them all? Do you hold all three? I do hold all three.Speaker 1: 13:17

I want all three and I definitely want to know where they are. I don’t know if it has to do with having four children and I don’t know, but I want to hold the balls.Speaker 1: 13:25

I do like to know where they are. I have a big thing about that. I also think it may be have to do with my frustration with slow speed, because then if I have them all, I can play at my speed, versus, if you know, if I only have two and they’re holding one and one goes on their side, I got to wait for them, and so I think some of it’s probably both things, but I have a major hang up with that. I want to hold all the ball. If we had five balls, I would want to hold all the balls.Speaker 2: 13:48

Now do you ask people for the third ball, like if they’re holding it or if it’s at another court? Do you ask people to give you the third ball? I can play the point?Speaker 1: 13:56

Yeah, I will go ahead and play. The point and that’s part of why I like having three is that if one goes somewhere where it’s not, you know, easily retrievable, but if someone is like holding it and then they’re passing it to my partner, I’m like let’s eliminate the middleman, Just give it to me. There’s no, I don’t need her to hold it, I’ll just give it to me. You know, to me, please me. I’ll take it, yeah.Speaker 3: 14:16

Me, me, me.Speaker 1: 14:17

Yeah, I like all three Me me me and there are, you know there are. I know people who are like that. You know Donna’s like that. You know we have people who. There are people I know they want the third. They want them. Just give them all the balls, you know, yeah, and then other people had when we were playing recently at state. She had one, she had two in her pocket and one fell out during the point and I was like you cannot let that happen again. Give me the third ball. So I kind of know the people who want you to hold one and the people who want all three.Speaker 3: 14:48

Yeah, I think that’s the thing about tennis. We’re all annoying in our own ways and we all get annoyed by people in there because of their ways, right.Speaker 2: 14:57

Right yeah.Speaker 3: 14:57

Because we’re all so different, like I sometimes will hold all three, especially in singles, because, opposite of gin, I don’t want to run to another court for like a lost ball or like I want to have control over them so that I’m not doing extra running during my singles match, you know.Speaker 2: 15:14

I remember somebody even said to me they were like it was a match tie break and we were the receivers and they asked for the third ball. That was over on a different court so that she’d have all three. And I ran to get it and gave it to her and my partner was like that was so messed up that she asked you for the third ball and she was all upset.Speaker 3: 15:36

Is.Speaker 2: 15:36

Jen, your partner.Speaker 1: 15:37

No, no and actually I don’t. The reason I want the balls is not because I don’t want the third ball. I want the balls because, like, let’s say that I serve and the ball goes to another court, I want to be ready to go to the next point. I don’t have to wait for that person over there. I don’t like waiting. I think that’s the theme of this episode, and I think that’s the theme of this episode, and so I don’t want to have to wait for a slow walker to walk to the other court and get the ball. I don’t care what she does with it. I’m like I’m good, I’ve got to get in position, I’m good.Speaker 3: 16:06

I’m the same way, for sure. You want that flow, right, yeah, yes, flow in your matches.Speaker 2: 16:11

What we need? We need a ref, yes, a ref, and we need and we need ball people, ball people.Speaker 1: 16:18

Well.Speaker 2: 16:18

I was a ball person, she was yeah, you were, I did.Speaker 1: 16:22

I had a lifelong dream of being a ball person, a ball kid, and I had never done it. And Erin had a connection at a local tournament and we looked at it and it did not say ball kid, it said just ball person. And Erin was like you should do it and I was like you know what I am, and so I did it, maybe last summer.Speaker 3: 16:40

Yeah, two summers ago, two summers ago, and she’s the best one out there.Speaker 1: 16:43

I tried out and you know I don’t think it was a trial, but I signed up and did the training and I did that, you know, and I was by far the only adult doing it and, like true to form, I sprinted around that court, you know, and but then I did. I am very tickled by the fact I laugh at the fact that the next year it did say ball kid at that tournament.Speaker 3: 17:02

They do not allow adults anymore. I wish I had been at some of those matches, though, where she was the ball person, because I’ll bet the pros like these are, you know, I don’t know hundreds in the a hundred in the world 150, you know pro tennis players getting paid on the tour. I’ll bet they were even watching her, like oh, she’s really fast.Speaker 1: 17:21

I kind of do think it. I do believe I’m going to go with that. I wasn’t bad at it. I’m going to go with that. I might have been distracting because they were like what is this? You know? Ball woman, middle-aged woman sprinting around the court Like what is this? What is happening? I sort of feel like they may have been a little distracted.Speaker 2: 17:40

We can’t thank Jen enough for coming on the podcast. I think these episodes are really helpful for me because I realize I’m bothering my opponents just as much as they are bothering me. If there’s anything that bothers you playing rec tennis, please let us know. You can message us on our website, which is SecondServePodcastcom. Thanks so much for listening and hope to see you on the courts soon.