Episodes

Ep. 325: 3.5 to 5.0 in 3 Years – Winning Singles Strategy

Carolyn and Erin — Sat, 23 May 2026 16:10:51 +0000

In this episode, Carolyn, Erin, and Gin discuss Gin’s singles strategy that helped her climb from a 3.5 to a 5.0 player in just three years. Gin shares that her success comes not from aggressive play or aiming for winners, but from a relentless focus on consistency and smart shot selection. She intentionally avoids going for lines or risky shots, instead aiming three feet inside the court and focusing on keeping the ball in play. Gin emphasizes that most recreational players lose points from errors rather than opponents hitting winners, echoing data seen even at the professional level. Erin and Carolyn reflect on how they were taught to attack short balls aggressively but now see the value in Gin’s approach—being disciplined even on attackable shots. Gin also stresses adapting to the opponent’s weaknesses rather than trying to overpower them. She shares an extreme example where she faced a player even more consistent than herself, resulting in a 278-ball rally. This rare match showed that even her strategy needs adjustments at times. The episode ends with Carolyn and Erin pledging to work on their own consistency and inviting listeners to try Gin’s strategy and share their experiences.

Here’s a Transcript of Our Episode:

Carolyn: 0:06

Hi, this is Carolyn and I’m here with Erin and we have Gin back on the podcast. Gin got bumped from 3.5 to 5.0 in three years. This wasn’t going to be an episode, but we started discussing after the other episodes we recorded with Jen how she was able to win so many singles matches and we thought others may want to hear it. So here it is, jen. Since you have played 3-5, 4-0, 4-5, and 5-0 singles, can you tell us your single strategy?Gin: 0:37

Yeah, I think that you know a lot of rec players have the wrong mindset is kind of my point of view, and I bet you a lot of pros out there are going to disagree with me. But you know, I have just, you know, shown that I can win at singles and, and you know, women’s recreational tennis, and I have done it through consistency. And you know I learned from y’all’s podcast that even at the professional level, most points are lost by an error, not won by a winner, even if Djokovic can’t win a match on more on winners, I’m not going to be able to. So I’ve taken the strategy of I do not ever aim for a line, I’m aiming three feet inside the line. I am really trying to just get a lot of balls back and I have found that at three, five, four, oh, four or five, and you know even a couple of five, oh, doubles, uh, singles matches. This is all singles, um, that I’ve been in. You know they, you, you will win more than you will lose and they will get, they will hit some winners, um, but you kind of just say, yeah, good shot.Gin: 1:39

And and I’m going to go back to the next point being consistent and and I have found a lot of success that way, yeah, so I think that people really should come into a match more with a mentality of of getting you know, finding a ball you know I want you to find as a singles player out there. I want you to find a ball that you can hit 90% of the time in and safe you know that’s a good. You know still be working toward a good deep. You safe you know that’s a good. You know still be working toward a good deep, you know ball. But don’t let it be within a foot of the line. Do not think of it as like I’m going to put this ball away. They’re not going to get to it. Don’t even worry about that. If you can hit a ball inconsistently you know deep, ish, um, a lot of times you know you will win a lot of matches.Erin: 2:26

So what I was saying before we started recording this was that what I learned, and now I’m upset about it. What I learned was when you have a short ball or an attackable ball, right, then you come in and you do something with it. So you, so I learned basically like, do patterns, set up, set up your point, but then when there is a short ball, like, let’s say, inside the service box, you have to do something with it. You’ve got to finish the point. And that was what my pros mentality was for years and Carolyn had the same, the same pro, and what Jen is saying is still be consistent with that ball.Erin: 2:59

Don’t think of it as this ball I have to like, I think of it as I have to kill this ball, and usually what happens to me is I kill the ball to the back fence or three feet over, you know, three feet out or whatever, so I lose. I actually played a woman who’s super consistent that that you guys both know and I won the first three games and I was like I am rolling now and I did not win another game after that because she hit just consistently. You know, back in the court. Every ball came back in the court, no matter if it was short or deep or whatever, but every single ball, and I kept thinking I’ve got to put it away, I’ve got to put it away. And I did not win a single game after that.Gin: 3:32

So yeah, and when I come forward, when I get a short ball, you know I’m going to try to know. If you’ve got a phenomenal approach shot that you can hit consistently, by all means hit that. But I haven’t found many ladies you know in any of these levels I’ve played at who can do that super consistently. So for most people you know what I do is I come in, I have a. I’m much more, I can count on my slice forehand much better in that situation. The pros don’t like it when I do it, but I know I can hit that in 90% of the time, whereas my topspin approach shot I do not feel as confident with. So I hit that and I hit it with that same mentality of like, yeah, I’m going to try to challenge the person. You know I don’t want to hit like an easy ball to the middle but I’m not going to hit a ball that I’m not pretty sure you know very sure I can hit in. You know I want to hit a ball that I know sure I can hit in. You know I want to hit a ball that I know and if that and if all you know you can hit in if you’re at a level, you know, if you’re a two, five or a three, oh, and you only know that you can hit on a pop-up ball, I would encourage you to hit that pop-up ball.Gin: 4:34

Know in your head what your opponent’s weaker shot is. You know, let’s say that they have a weaker backhand Hit them a pop-up ball to their backhand. You’re still in a better position. You know, you’re still in the mentality You’re getting balls back and so that I mean, you know that’s kind of what I’ve done. You know, so be smart about it. You know, notice what your opponent’s weaknesses are. You know, if there’s someone who and every time you hit them a short ball, hit a short ball. Don’t make it a ball that is barely coming over the net that you can only hit in two at a time.Gin: 5:03

Don’t hit a shot that you are only going to be able to hit in two at a ten times, but just something that makes them move. So it’s just really sort of a safe, consistent mentality. And even if we look at professionals, obviously there are different types of players. There’s players who are, you know, fast and consistent and that’s their game even at the professional level. And there are other players who are power players. You know I’m not a power player. If you’re a power player, you know you may have to sort of tweak my strategy, I guess. But yeah, I don’t think that any adult recreational ladies, tennis players, should be going for the line, the line and winners every time.Erin: 5:44

I have not seen anyone be able to do it. Yeah, I would say I’m a power player, and I will tell you.Gin: 5:46

The problem with being a power player is you hit more out than you hit in you know, and that’s the person when I’m playing singles, if I’m warming up against that is I’m like yes like this girl enjoys going for it and she’s going to hit some winners that I don’t get. But you know this is gonna be easy because she’s she cannot do that. If she could, if she could do that she would be a 5-5. You know, like if she could hit that ball in 90 percent of the time Right.Erin: 6:09

Yeah, what’s your mentality, carolyn, in singles?Carolyn: 6:13

It was single. Well, if I get a short ball, it’s put it away, just because I’ve been taught OK, put it away. And let me tell you, I can’t put it away 90 percent of the time. I probably put it away 20 percent of the time because my body’s moving, I’m not set up correctly. But in my mind I’m like, oh, I got a short ball, I’ve really done everything I needed, and and it frustrates me. Then I get frustrated because I go for it and I’m like I should be able to hit this, because when my pro is feeding it to me time after time after time, I can do it Right.Carolyn: 6:45

But in a real match, you know my feet aren’t, you know, I’m hitting it a little differently and I’m missing it and I’ve just, you know, I’ve never thought to like, okay, let’s really bring the ball in. Some like you can still be aggressive, but bring the targets in and not go, not go for these winners, and I’ve always gone for the winners and I don’t, I don’t win. So but I think the thing is we don’t. I don’t think pros really understand this, because they play at such a high level, whereas Jen is in the trenches Like she’s playing 3-5 level 4-0, 4-5, and now 5-0. She’s seen it.Gin: 7:25

She’s seen rack tennis. I believe I’ve played 76 for USTA singles matches and I’m 72-4. Wow, so I have tested this theory and it you know it’s pretty effective. Again, there will be people you come up against that may not work and you may have to tweak it. But yeah, I do believe people should really work on their consistency. We’re not. I would highly encourage people to really work on being a little more consistent and hitting balls. They have confidence they can hit in a lot of the time.Erin: 8:07

Yeah, I’m, I’m, I’m still going to be mad that I it’s like, my, it’s a muscle memory of, like it was just so ingrained and I remember bumping from three five or watching, when I was probably a three oh, watching a friend of mine who maybe just got bumped to three five and she was, I’m sorry, just got bumped to four oh from a three five and I remember her walking off the court and she walked past me and she was like every short ball that I gave that woman was a winner, like she, you know, like she felt like that was the difference between three five and four oh singles was that four oh players would put it away if they recognized either a short ball or a ball that they hit like a deep to someone’s backhand. You know that they would come in on and so that’s. It’s been in my mind for so many years. And now, getting to know Jen and hitting with Jen a lot more and watching her progression from those love you know up through the, through the ranks, it’s like, yeah, the pros, whatever the somebody knows the numbers, but it’s something like, you know, maybe a three or five ball rally is typical and that’s because people are going for it.Erin: 9:11

Now, again, that’s a completely different. It’s all called tennis, but what they play and what we play is completely different, and you know. So, like Jen said, if they can’t hit winners or if they can’t cut down on their unforced errors, we aren’t going to be able to do it. So I’m going to try to change. We talked about goals last week on our podcast, carolyn. That’s my new. Goal is consistency. You know, hitting with Jen more.Gin: 9:39

It’s a strategy to try. You know we all get out on the court and try different, you know, and you may have to tweak it. You have to say, oh gosh, I’ve run up against another player who’s doing the same strategy and she’s faster and younger and more athletic than me. Like I gotta, I’m going to have to do something different.Gin: 9:53

So you know this isn’t just a catch all, but I do think that I don’t think people think about it enough. I would like to enter this in as, like, another sort of way to play uh that people work on. You know, work on it in your clinics, you know, maybe go to a clinic and don’t see how hard you can hit it and cause that’s fun. You know we all love to go and cause it doesn’t matter. You know who cares if I hit it out. But like, maybe go and say I want to see how many. You know, maybe I can try to have fewer than five errors all day today. Or, you know, it’s just a different way to think about your game.Erin: 10:23

Have you ever counted your own errors in Like? Have you recognized how few you had, that you were able to count them? I have won a set before I can think of one match ever I have won a set before not losing a single point, and almost won the whole match. That’s a golden. Isn’t that called a golden? It is.Gin: 10:38

Somebody told me that was like a golden match or something. I did lose a couple points. I think maybe we were three games into the second set or something.Erin: 10:47

Have you ever done that?Carolyn: 10:48

Have you ever, carolyn, I had a golden match no, I’ve never even heard of that. That’s how I’ve never even been close to that.Gin: 10:55

Well, that’s because you like to put the ball away.Carolyn: 11:06

You’re a different style of player. Well, I come in. You know what I do. I come into the net Like I’m like, oh, they’re lobbing it, I’ve gotten it to a shot where I can get to a volley and I hit the volley out. Or I mean I may hit some winners and they feel so good, yeah. But it’s few and far between. Like this is kind of a different way to think. And Jen is very athletic, so she can move, she can get to things. She does have that style of play. But to be a little bit more like I need to be consistent versus let me try to put something away, even though I’m getting older and I’m not as athletic as I was and I’m not to the, you know, like I don’t have the skill to do it, I haven’t done it a million times. I think I’m gonna try Jen’s way.Erin: 11:41

I know how it goes Exactly. We’ll have to. We’ll do a follow up podcast and see.Gin: 11:46

Yeah, yeah.Erin: 11:47

I have this one funny story about actually I have a couple funny stories about watching Jen play singles. One is a friend of mine we were out watching. It was it was a summer singles match because I remember it was like after dark and I think we were like having a drink at our club and just watching gin play because we enjoy it. And this poor woman she was playing against. There’s just nothing she could do. And so my friend canna and I were like that what she needs to, that one needs to just get into the net like try to put balls away, because she wasn’t going to outlast her.Carolyn: 12:15

So we kept saying, like why is she doing that?Erin: 12:17

know, hit two balls and come in, like hit one ball and come in, do something different, but then the same thing kind of happened. The other funny story was the same thing sort of happened to Jen in a match where she voice texted us after because she had such a long story about. She actually had to finally change her mentality from being consistent because she came up against another Jen basically. So she would hit 200 and some balls I counted. Do you want me to tell yes, please?Gin: 12:43

So I, she’s right, I was like reluctant to tell this, but um, you know, I did. I ran up against somebody who kind of played my game better than I did and um, and she, we, we were having just incredibly long rallies. It was summer, it was very hot, she was younger than me and I was counting rallies and I mean they were many, were over a hundred balls, but the one that I counted one that was 278 balls and I lost the point and I, and I really was in that match trying to move her. You know, I was, I felt like I was changing it up, you know, and but she just was getting everything back in her ball. Anyway, it was, she was better that day than me at my game and and so I did Erin’s right.Gin: 13:20

That’s the only time in my, you know, uh, tennis career so far that I have been like to heck with this. I’m not doing this anymore, I’m not. You know, I thought to myself this is adult record, I’m not having fun and I’m going to, just I’m going to end this match one way or the other. So I did start hitting as hard as I’m talking, you know, one might be a winner and then one would go two courts over. I mean, you know it was, it was I was, but I was like I’m sticking with this strategy and I want a game like that, but then I did not end up winning that match, but um yeah, so I did run into that, you’re right, but that was one out of, like you know, 70 or 80 singles matches ever.Erin: 13:54

But it just made me laugh because she sent this long voice, you know, recording to us and she was like y’all, I mean, I had 278 balls and then I just decided I had to change everything. I was just hitting winners, I was hitting as hard as I like. It just made me laugh Cause it’s like well, that’s kind of our everyday match.Carolyn: 14:10

And that was like once in a lifetime for Jim so yeah.Gin: 14:26

Oh, that’s great. That was not my favorite match. She did a great job. She was a great player that day. Yeah, yeah, how long that match take, how long. The first set was a very long set because we were both doing that strategy, but no once I mean I switched to that maybe a couple games into the second set and then it was over very fast, um, so I mean the first set was at well over an hour. Was it a set?Erin: 14:36

tiebreaker. What were your scores? Do you remember? I don’t remember. Uh, for close first set.Gin: 14:37

I don’t remember if it went to tiebreaker. What were your scores? Do you remember? I don’t remember Close for set. I don’t remember if it went to a tiebreaker, if it was just 6-4 or 7-5 or something like that, and then the second set wouldn’t, because once I started doing that, I think I won one game and then no more.Erin: 14:50

What did she say to you after? Was there any awkward? I?Gin: 14:53

think she said you could have done that much earlier and saved us some time. You know, but nicely.Carolyn: 14:57

Yeah, yeah, as a joke.Gin: 14:59

We had very good rapport and yeah, she was kind of kidding Like why didn’t you do that and save us, you know, some energy and heat and everything else?Erin: 15:08

Yeah, Could you imagine I told Jen this I don’t know how many points there would be in whatever. Uh, I I’m sure I could do the math quickly, but I won’t. But like, whatever a golden set or a golden match would be, however many points that is, but I don’t think I’ve hit 200. And what did you say? 78. 78 balls in an entire match. And she was talking about one point. One point, yeah.Carolyn: 15:27

One point that’s so crazy. That’s so crazy. Yeah, that’s amazing.Erin: 15:32

Would you ever do that, Carolyn?Carolyn: 15:41

You just rush into the net. I don’t think I could Like I’m not at that level to you know. Well, most people aren’t. That’s what. That’s what it’s. I don’t think I could do, to be honest, more than 10.Erin: 15:47

Oh, I’ve seen you hit. Could I do more than 10? Yeah, you can.Carolyn: 15:49

Even if it’s hit directly to me. Yeah, you can. Could I do 20? Yes.Erin: 15:54

Maybe not right now, but this spring you’re going to, you can hit 20.Carolyn: 15:57

What do you think, yours, my shot tolerance.Erin: 16:00

Yeah, if I was pretending like I was just hitting against a friend and that I was not hitting a winner, I think I could definitely do 10.Gin: 16:09

Oh, we just did 100.Erin: 16:10

We just did yeah, oh, 100. Okay, wow. But see, here’s the difference between Jen and I too. I wouldn’t do 100 in one point, because I know that I still have like 70 more points to play out, or whatever.Carolyn: 16:22

the you know, yeah, I don’t have the stamina for it either. So there’s, you have to do what Jen did, which is stamina nutrition, everything involved to do it.Erin: 16:31

That’s crazy, I know, but that’s good. That’s really good single strategy and it’s good. It’s yeah, carol and I are both going to play a lot of singles, so we’re gonna try to implement some of this a lot of it.Carolyn: 16:42

Yeah, yeah, we’ll let you know how the gin strategy goes, yeah maybe some of the listeners will try it and let us know. I know, but they better not try it against us.Gin: 16:49

Right.Carolyn: 16:50

Yeah, don’t do it, against that we can’t have two people doing that.Gin: 16:53

That’s true. Yeah, it’s just for us Nevermind, don’t, don’t put this out?Carolyn: 16:56

Yeah, this is not going out. Thanks again to Jen for coming on the podcast. If anyone listening tries Jen’s single strategy and it works, please let us know. You can message us on our website, which is SecondServePodcastcom. Thanks so much for listening and hope to see you next time.

The post Ep. 325: 3.5 to 5.0 in 3 Years – Winning Singles Strategy appeared first on Second Serve Tennis Podcast.

Ep. 324: A Journey From 3.5 to 5.0 in Three Years (Part Two)

Carolyn and Erin — Sat, 16 May 2026 16:09:04 +0000

Tune in for part two of Gin’s incredible journey—from an NTRP rated 3.5 to a 5.0 in just three years! It’s a story of dedication and the hard work she’s put into her health and fitness.

Here’s A Complete Transcript of Our Conversation with Gin

Carolyn: 0:07

Hi, this is Carolyn, and I’m here with Erin, and this is part two of our episode with Jen, who went from level 3.0 to 5.0 in three years. If you’d like to hear more about her background, please check out part one, but here is part two.Gin: 0:22

Both when I bumped to four or five and then this year Erin knows, because I called her that morning I’m a coach at my club and so I did the safe play thing through USTA. So I got the email early and I sobbed when I got this most recent bump and I know that maybe sounds silly because I know I, you know I am, I do, I’m aware that it’s a privilege to even talk about being at that level and you know, really a special thing, but it changes your life. You know, it has changed my um. Something that I’ve come to really love, and that’s something that has given me a lot in my life, is, you know, tennis and I and I started it as a daytime when my kids were at school activity and and it has, I mean, given me friendships and health and just I mean so much and that is now gone and so I’m having a hard time. Even right now I could sort of cry like kind of come into terms with that.Erin: 1:16

So yeah, because we’ve talked about there’s a pathway from 2.5 and up, but not once you hit that 5.0 level, right.Carolyn: 1:23

Yeah, so do you not have a team at 5.0 right now? So in our area, or are there teams Right? Are there teams? I guess there are teams.Gin: 1:30

In our area and I’m sure this is very different depending on where you are, but in our area there are not teams, like you all know that. You know a lot of us play in the different local you know I mean we call them Eno and Cary and in our area you can kind of travel not far and play. So a lot of our friends play on. You know two teams in Raleigh, two teams in Cary and an Eno team, and you know, so you kind of can build all these teams that you’re playing on, and so for 5-0, there is not Durham Cary, there’s none there, and so there’s only one Raleigh team. And also in the other brackets you can play 18 and 40, because I am well over 40. But in 5-0, there is not a 40. So it is one league and it plays on Sunday afternoons and I had already made the decision. I did not want to play on weekends because that’s when I’m. I did not start tennis to be another thing on the weekends, when my kids.Gin: 2:25

I started tennis to be what I did during the day.Carolyn: 2:28

So yeah.Gin: 2:29

Did you appeal? I did. I took my time with it. I did not hit it right away because I just wanted to make sure, because you know USDA is very clear about you can’t undo an appeal. So I just thought you know, I want to make sure this is what I want. I mean it is maybe something I would never achieve again, I just want to make sure. But the more I thought about it and talked to friends that week I was like no, what am I thinking? And so I did hit appeal and it was denied.Carolyn: 2:52

I hit appeal this year too, at 4-0, and it was denied. I know, I think that’s you know.Gin: 2:56

I heard Erin say the thing on the podcast last podcast about that, and I’m the one that said that. I think if you battle cancer you should be able to say I want to be this level I know the USTA should make that happen, carolyn’s, like I’m coming back as a 2.5.Erin: 3:09

Yeah, I know right.Carolyn: 3:11

You can come with me, jen, we’ll do it again, I know.Erin: 3:25

I mean, I really, I mean this maybe y see her play shouldn’t look like a four.Carolyn: 3:26

Oh yeah, I’m sure that is kind of a you, because you don’t hear these stories that often of somebody making it to five, oh, and then not having opportunity to play opportunities.Erin: 3:36

Yeah it really does. So, like I said, there’s a really good pathway and USTA has done an amazing job of getting people who have never touched a racket.Carolyn: 3:44

You know there’s a five, three, five, four.Erin: 3:47

There’s all those programs for, like, just jump on a court and for 40 bucks we’ll give you a racket and a coach and six weeks of training, and you know. So they have all this. And then there’s a, you know, learn to play and then learn to play in a league. You know this whole. Really they’ve done a good job of that pathway. No-transcript. We could have like three guys and a woman on the court just because they just don’t have the opportunity to play. And here we are. Like Jen said, we’ve got 18 over, 40 over. In our area, I mean in our club, we’ve got 55, 65, 75 year olds. They’ve got all those leagues plus all the different areas that we could travel to. So Jen, unfortunately, at 5.0, is just out of those options.Gin: 4:57

You’re just too good, jen, you’ve gotten too good too quickly is that? I don’t really feel like it? So you know? But I, you know I did have the win, so I guess I’ve got to accept it. And you know I would also be remiss. I left out, I kind of glossed through my 4.0 year and I did. I will also say you know we’re talking about what I did. I did take a lot of lessons that year and so I can’t, you know, leave out. I mean, some phenomenal coaches really taught me a lot and so you know that was a big part. I did that mostly during the year that I was a 4.0. It was blessed to be able to do that almost weekly and that was incredible. In fact, erin and I and our other friend who’s also been on the podcast, did a group lesson and then I did some private, so that was also incredibly helpful.Erin: 5:40

Yeah, and I know we’ve said it, but it’s not just natural ability. She worked really really, really hard at working out constantly. You know, like she said nutrition, I mean she kind of did it all and she just did it so quick. A lot of people say they’re going to commit to doing that and maybe they do it, maybe it takes some years, maybe they dabble in it. Jen really went full force into it and she’s just very, very quick. She has amazing footwork from her other sports and that, like you said, that competitiveness and you know it’s. I hate to say that it’s a bummer that you got bumped to 5-0. It feels like that. But you know people listening might be like oh you know how lucky, but it was a lot of hard work, but now she’s just out of options.Carolyn: 6:23

I mean there’s professional athletes that play tennis and they, you know 3-5, 4-0. They’re not getting bumped to 5-0. So that shows how much you worked, how hard you worked, how much you’ve done, Even though you are a phenomenal athlete. There’s other professional athletes that play tennis now and they’re not getting bumped to 5-0.Gin: 6:42

Well, thank you, I appreciate that.Erin: 6:44

Yeah, there’s a few in our area. We interviewed a baseball player. I know a hockey player. They’re playing tennis. Very, very good, Very good yeah 4-4 to 4-5, but not getting bumped to 5-0.Gin: 6:56

It’s really fun for me to watch the different sports that people come out of and watch how it appears on the tennis court. You know you’ve got the volleyball players who are just like crazy net people who look like they. You know they look like they’re they. I mean they love being up there at that net and putting that ball away. And then you’ve got, I mean, we have at our club when you just said hockey, that’s what made me think of this and I played her this morning, so maybe that’s why it’s fresh on my mind but we have somebody who played hockey ice hockey and she was a keeper, a goalie and whatever.Gin: 7:25

I mean her. The way that she slaps at the ball in these crazy arm movements looks like a hockey goalie, but it comes back at you in the craziest spin that you ever will see and it’s very effective. She’s a very, very good player and you know, just fun to watch. You know a soccer player and people will say what sport did you play? You know, cause they can tell there’s something there, um, and I think that is the, maybe the running and the footwork, um, yeah, and so, yeah, it’s fun to watch the different the, to see the different sport, the different athletes and um how it looks on the tennis court. That is fun.Erin: 7:57

Yeah, carolyn gets in trouble, cause she was a basketball player and she was like just run up to the net at any point, like when I should like anytime, so she’s like time to get to the net.Carolyn: 8:10

I’d rather be at the net than at the baseline. So yeah, I just run to the net.Erin: 8:16

Willy nilly whenever.Gin: 8:17

And I run. I do the opposite. I get you know. The coaches yell at me all the time especially in singles.Erin: 8:28

But you know I’ll go to midway up and hit a ball and then backtrack, you know. But I want to be on the baseline. I get as far away from the net as possible. Me too.Gin: 8:32

It’s like there’s a magnet on the baseline. It just pulls me back.Erin: 8:35

Okay, so since you have now played USTA leagues and a zillion matches in the last three years, is that all you’ve been playing 2020.Gin: 8:45

Yeah, 2020.Carolyn: 8:45

Yeah.Erin: 8:46

Okay, one, almost all of them too. Yeah, um, do you have a craziest story that you can tell our listeners? People love to hear about the crazy. Yeah, you know, I have a lot of.Gin: 8:55

I think what I have is like a lot of crazy stories. I mean, you know, erin and I are texting and telling each other about crazy stories, but then it’s like when you try to think of like the one crazy story to share, that’s when it gets hard. You know, one that comes to mind for me is that I was playing. I had lots of things happen that first year that were funny to me. Like you know, a player that and we’re this is three, five, you know adult recreational tennis and a woman came out and was switching rackets every changeover and she had like 20 bag tags from all her championships and was just very undone over that. She was losing to me and yelled at me you are not a 3-5.Gin: 9:36

And a lot of things like that happened over the years, but the one that I guess I was going to tell you about is that I had a player we were playing very competitive singles match and she was doing well, she was ahead, and then I kind of had a little comeback and she cried. She came to the net at one of the changeovers and literally had tears rolling down her cheeks and said you know, I would really like to go back to the way that we were playing at the beginning. You know, I really do not.Carolyn: 10:04

When I was beating you yeah.Gin: 10:06

Yeah, can we?Carolyn: 10:06

play that way instead. Yeah.Gin: 10:08

And I really do not, and it was very sincere, and I really do not like this anymore, and I kind of just thought to myself, like you know what, do you want me to do Like?Gin: 10:18

you know, that’s all I need to know. Like, I mean, this is a the way I am. So, um, and I think it was being just crazy obnoxiously consistent, hitting balls, you know, maybe even with less pace to the middle of the court, kind of thing and, um, I beat her, but that was. That was bizarre to me, that she thought that would be an effective strategy to cry and to ask someone.Erin: 10:39

you know, I’m going to try that next time, when I’m winning and then I fall behind, maybe, like I get broken, I’m going to go up and ask my opponent hey, could you like do all the stuff you were just doing when I was beating you instead? That’s so. That’s crazy, that’s pretty nutty. I wonder if she remembers that she did that.Carolyn: 10:54

Erin, have you ever made someone cry? I’ve never made anybody cry. Oh, I’ve made.Gin: 10:58

I’ve made back to me. I interrupted Erin. No there’ve been several other. I’ve made a lot of people cry.Carolyn: 11:03

I think I’m just very frustrating to play against. Does that make you feel awkward at all? Oh yeah, because to me it would make me feel awkward.Erin: 11:10

Yes, why would people do that? Do you think they do that in men’s tennis? Never.Gin: 11:15

I think I’m frustrating. I think that you know, I think it’s very frustrating to play a type of player who just gets things back a lot. And and I think I’ve I mean I’ve had people say you know, I hit it, I’m hitting them out because I feel like I’ve got to get it on the line or you’re going to get to it, and so I think it’s just. I mean, you know, I think I’m just I’m frustrating, so I do, I do. People do cry, people do cry. I’ve cried too.Carolyn: 11:46

We’re women, you know, Jen.Gin: 11:52

so can you also tell us your most memorable moment on the court? Yes, I’m a huge fan of this podcast and so I knew that question was coming and so I think probably I have to say I mean, there have been so many, as I’m sure everybody you know would say, and absolutely you know our state championships and, um, those have been incredibly special and I’ve gotten to be you know part of several at this point, but, um, I’d say there have to be two, and one is that, um, I actually won a state championship in high school. Um, our tennis team won the two a which, if you’re from North Carolina, you know what that means it’s a little school, right.Gin: 12:24

But if you’re not, it means that it’s a small school, we’re from a small town. State championship, and as a whatever I was 16-year-old that was just so exciting, and to have all the parents there, I mean it was just really, really special and we had tried we’d made it to the final for three straight years and um, so to win that match was, um, you know, it has to be among my top tennis moments, even though it was a long time ago. And the other one was, I guess, planet nationals. Um, you know that, that, I’m sure, is something I’ll never experience again. And um, even though we didn’t win, I believe we finished fifth. That was also still, you know, just a highlight, you know, to say I did it and it’s really fun, yeah.Erin: 13:07

I’ve never made it to regionals.Gin: 13:09

It’s hard, it’s really hard we would have made it several times if they had regionals.Erin: 13:16

True, we did win the state championship in singles several times, and but Jen was also like so amazing at nationals Cause she was kind of our marketing girl and pushing our podcast and wearing.Carolyn: 13:27

So much for doing that.Erin: 13:29

She was wearing our sticker on her shirt while she was playing. So she was giving us some, you know, giving us some love all the way at nationals.Carolyn: 13:36

Should we have had Jen doing that, cause she’s making people cry, true?Gin: 13:40

I did not make anybody cry at nationals. I think it was okay. I played against lovely people.Carolyn: 13:46

We really appreciate Jen coming on the podcast. If you’re aware of any other person like Jen who climbed the rankings really quickly, please let us know. You can message us on our website, which is SecondServePodcastcom. Thanks so much for listening and hope to see you on the courts soon.

The post Ep. 324: A Journey From 3.5 to 5.0 in Three Years (Part Two) appeared first on Second Serve Tennis Podcast.

Ep. 323 A Journey From 3.5 to 5.0 in Three Years

Carolyn and Erin — Sat, 09 May 2026 16:07:42 +0000

Join us as we dive into Gin’s remarkable journey from a 3.5 self-rated player to an NTRP 5.0 in just three years!

Here’s A Complete Transcript of Our Conversation with Gin

Carolyn: 0:06

Hi, this is Carolyn and I’m here with Aaron and we are thrilled to have on the podcast Jen. Jen has been bumped from level 3.5 to 5.0 in three years. We met Jen. How do we meet Jen Aaron? Aaron was captaining a 4-0 team that won the state championship. Jen was on that team. She was a 3-5 at that time. She is now a 5-0. Aaron, are you a 5-0 now?Erin: 0:36

Not close. But the funny thing about that is well, first of all, carolyn picked all the amazing great people on that team and our first goal was we want nice people to form a team with that are also good tennis players, and we got a really good group of people and some of us, including Jen and I, became very, very close through that team. But, carolyn, you picked all the great people. But I remember when someone at my club contacted me and said, oh, jen is looking for a summer singles team, I was like great. And then Jen I think we were on a group text and Jen was like but I’m a 3-5. And I was like you’re good, you’re fine, because I saw her play several matches and at that point I was like I want nice people and it’ll just be a fun team. And then, yeah, we went on to win the state championship, actually two years in a row.Erin: 1:26

And then we retired last year because I was like eh, jen got bumped.Carolyn: 1:36

Been there, done that. Yeah, I was like let’s go out on a high note. Too bad, there’s not a national championship for singles. I know I mean it just ends at the state level, because Jen would win her court, for us for sure.Erin: 1:42

Oh, yeah, it might be the only court we win all weekend, but she’d be winning it so anyway. So welcome Jen.Gin: 1:49

Thank you. Thank you for coming on. I’m so excited. I’m happy to be here.Carolyn: 1:52

Okay, tell us a little bit about your tennis background.Gin: 1:55

So, I definitely was like a total tomboy growing up. You know the kid who was just every ball I could get my hands on. You know, really tennis was not my main sport when I was little but I did do some tennis. I lived in a really small town but we had a pro that would travel to us so I took some lessons as a junior, but really, and my little high school tennis team did have some success and that was really fun, but really, you know, my main sports were soccer and basketball. We have that in common, carolyn, the basketball and but you know I just love anything athletic. And then I took off 25 years to have kids and didn’t touch a racket and so that was kind of the background, you know, until the present era starts. But yeah, it was kind of a lot of kid stuff and then a long time doing nothing but being a mom, because Jen has four kids.Carolyn: 2:49

Yes, that’s right.Erin: 2:50

Okay, wow, and didn’t you get back into it because your kids were taking lessons. I did yeah.Gin: 2:54

So that you know, my kids were playing, I had gotten them into the sport and they were taking lessons somewhere else and I kind of was like I don’t know that. I feel like you know, this is the best and so what, I’m going to look into where we could go. So I found our where Aaron and I are at our club right now and got my kids in there and you know, I was just watching them. I, you know, I still had a three-year-old, so I was then, you know, one day I was like you know, maybe I’ll take a clinic, Like this looks kind of fun, Like I, I can do this, Like I’ll get back out there and take a clinic. So that’s what I did. I think it was the fall of 21. I signed up for, just, you know, just picked one off the sheet, just not knowing anything or anybody, just I’ll try this clinic.Gin: 3:33

It was it was uh like a double strategy yeah.Erin: 3:37

That’s actually my favorite clinic, like a Thursday morning double strat. Yeah, so then okay, so you came in. Who talked you into getting into league play In our area?Gin: 3:47

anyway, it’s kind of like that’s what it. It’s like there’s not much else.Erin: 3:50

Right, it’s so competitive. Yeah, I mean you can do clinics and then everybody at the club.Gin: 3:54

That was kind of like what they did. I didn’t really feel like there was another path. Really, now at our club we do have some indoor like during the winter, but during the rest of the year it’s sort of like you, you join a league and and, um, you know, I didn’t know how to self rate. You know people kept saying you need to get a rating and you know I, I did the the forum online to self rate and it actually recommended that I’d be a 3-0. Which is crazy. Yeah, I answered all the questions, as it said. You know. I think it said did you play college tennis? I did not. Have you played tennis in 25 years? I had not. So it said we recommend 3-0. And I thought, ah, let me try 3-5.Carolyn: 4:31

Yeah, so I did that’s interesting. So you played 3-5, even though technically you could have played 3-0.Gin: 4:37

Right.Erin: 4:38

Yes, could you imagine her at 3.0?Gin: 4:40

Oh my goodness, sorry, yeah, so I guess you could say I went from 3.0 to 5.0.Carolyn: 4:45

Correct.Gin: 4:46

Yes, that’s amazing, but I did not ever. I did not self-rate. I’ve started as a self-rated 3.5.Erin: 4:52

And not to get off on a tangent, but that’s what I do.Gin: 4:55

That’s a whole nother episode.Erin: 4:57

We need to do a self-rate episode. Heard someone else that was like I did play college tennis, but it wasn’t within the last like 20 years. I think there’s like some sub. We should go through the questionnaire again online, carolyn. We did that years ago, but I think we just did a very high level or maybe we only went over, like the NTRP ratings and what you should be able to do with that rating, but the whole self rate. We need to have an entire episode on that, because Jen answered honestly and correctly and got rated a 3.0, which is nuts. But I’ve heard someone else that was like oh yeah, I was supposed to play 4.0, and I self-rated as a 4.5 because they had played some college tennis, whether it’s D3, d2, you know something, so it’s interesting. More we need to fix with USTA. You know rating stuff.Carolyn: 5:44

Yeah. I mean because most people would be like 3.0, okay, let’s interesting, we need to more. More we need to fix with USTA, you know rating stuff. Yeah, I mean because most people would be like three, oh, ok let’s go I mean everybody would want you on their team. I mean, everybody wanted you on their team at every level.Gin: 5:53

So you know, not really.Carolyn: 5:55

It didn’t mean anything. No, not really.Gin: 5:57

Because and I mean it’s like Aaron said, this is a whole episode in and of itself. I have lots of strong opinions on this whole. You know appeals and self rates, because I was that person and you know I don’t know what. What does three mean? I don’t know what does three. I don’t know. And, and you are very like you just said, everybody wants you on their team but they don’t know me, they don’t know. You know they don’t, they don’t want. No one was. I mean I had to sort of ask, really ask around. And I know y’all have an episode because I’m a huge fan of the podcast about tryouts and I completely had a tryout. I did not know it at the time but now I’m, you know, I’m certain, I know, I mean I absolutely Did you make that team?Erin: 6:38

I did, that was my first team. Carolyn had a tryout, but she didn’t make her team. Oh, carolyn, at 2-5,. Jen, it was a 2-5 team.Carolyn: 6:44

I got cut from Anyway. I’m not bitter.Erin: 6:48

We still talk about it every episode, though I’ve heard y’all talk about it, yeah, which is funny, because now Carolyn’s a 4-0 and people that cut her from the team never made it past.Carolyn: 6:59

Probably three, five or three, oh, probably well I don’t know it’s, it’s hard, but it’s so interesting that that’s the way it happened and that you were three, oh, and now you’re five, oh, I mean it just blows my mind so.Erin: 7:11

So take us through that journey. So three, five self rate right um to five. Oh so I know each year during ratings you got bumped, since I’ve known you, so go through that yeah, so I played.Carolyn: 7:21

Yeah, give us tips. I want to know how to be a five. Oh yeah, I mean you don’t you so go through that. Yeah, so I played. Yeah, and give us tips. I want to know how to be a 5-0.Erin: 7:26

You don’t want to know how to be a 5-0.Gin: 7:27

You don’t, yeah, I mean maybe we’ll get to that, but I’ve cried a lot about it, but I started. So I started playing UST tennis in spring of 22 and it was a self-rated 3-5 and played that season and, you know, had good success but definitely lost some matches and you know was figuring out how to do all this. I mean, I remember actually standing at the club was my very, very first match was against your y’all’s friend at your club.Erin: 7:49

That was your first match. I watched you play.Gin: 7:51

Yeah, that was my very first yes.Erin: 7:53

Do you remember that Mike and I sat up there you were playing singles and Emily was playing singles against Jen, and I think Mike and Emily was playing singles against Jen and I think Mike, your Mike and I watched and both Mike and I were like, oh, she’s not a three five, Just watching her play. And our friend Emily is a very good singles player.Gin: 8:12

And I remember I was shaking, standing back there to serve first. So I mean, you know I was terrified and it could not have been a lovelier first match. She is just the loveliest person. And so, anyway, I went through that season and, like I said, had success. But didn’t, you know, I lost some matches and every match felt nervous. You know I didn’t think to myself oh, I’m a 5-0. This is ridiculous. You know, every time I thought, you know I’m, who knows what’s going to happen. And then I did that summer, played, you know, was looking for some more singles that’s the team we referred to at the beginning and so got that experience. But again I was, I told Aaron, you know I was very like, but I’m a three five like you. You may not want me, I completely get this. So you know, I definitely did not feel like I was in the wrong place. But then I bumped, you know that, november, december, and again played.Erin: 9:00

So then she was computer rated for it. So then I was like yep, correct.Gin: 9:03

So computer rated four, oh, um, played that year 23 as a computer rated four, oh, and you know, I think by that time I had started to get my tennis legs under me and gain confidence. And you know, and I I will say, you know, first tip as far as how did you do this? I mean, I worked hard, you know I, I did clinics, I hit, you know, played a lot. I actually also really worked on my own personal fitness and nutrition and lost a lot of weight, partially through tennis, and you know, so that’s that was helpful. And so played that next year at 4-0 and was fortunate enough to go to States again, um, we won the state um summer singles state championship again. And actually and this has also been featured on your podcast, as I went to nationals, I was on that team that y’all have featured, um, that went to 4-0 team that went to nationals. So that was great, my 4-0 year. And then it happened again, you know, I bumped that November, december to 4-5. And she was really upset.Gin: 9:59

I was very upset because at that point in time my friends were 4-0s. You know, I had really developed great friendship. This lady sitting next to me included.Carolyn: 10:07

Which is Erin, which is Erin um, and Aaron, which is Aaron’s right beside her.Gin: 10:11

Um, carolyn and I would be, I’m sure, we just haven’t had as much opportunity. Um, but, uh, yeah, I. So I bumped that year and sort of the same story. I mean just play it again and and, and, for whatever reason, you know, I don’t know. You know, I don’t really know why I keep bumping. I think I’m a competitor. Um, I am very scrappy, like I think there’s. I think I’m a competitor. I am very scrappy, Like I think there’s some people who, especially if you were not a junior athlete or have come to sports as an adult, you know you’re going to hit three balls and then you’re kind of like, well, I didn’t win that point, I will hit you know, 300 balls in a point, and that’s no big deal, and I was a soccer player in college.Erin: 10:48

And that’s not exaggerating, right? When she says 300, it’s not like when I say a thousand, and that really means five for me. When she says 300, she means 300 balls. Wow, like she’ll hit that many.Carolyn: 10:58

Right, so it’s the consistency. So, yeah, you can do it.Gin: 11:01

I think that for sure for me. You know, I’m not a power player, I’m not hitting winners and hitting people off the court. And you know, in fact I’ve had people tell me like you’re not at all what I thought you were going to be. You know, I saw your rating and I saw your record and like you don’t really hit the ball and I’m like, yeah, you know, and so it’s, I’m athletic.Erin: 11:24

I’m fast and I get to balls and get them back. I mean, she gets stuff that they’re just ungettable for most people, you know. They’re just ungettable for most people, you know.Carolyn: 11:29

But can get it and then return it inside the court. Because I could understand consistency at like, oh, 3-0, that person’s consistent, so she gets bumped to 3-5. Maybe even consistent getting bumped to 3-5 to 4-0. But then at that point I mean people are hitting the ball hard, they are. I mean I can’t imagine at 4-5, like, getting to the shots that people can hit at that level and then getting them back and getting them back inside the court. I mean that’s ridiculous to be able to do that. Like I understand like 3.0 being consistent, but 4.5, you know, because we’ve had people that are consistent that get bumped up to 4.0. But that’s kind of where they stop, yeah, like they can’t get to that 4.5, 5.0 level.Erin: 12:18

So that’s just amazing. Yeah, and to Jen’s credit, she won’t say it, but she does get the ball back deep and with something on it or she does something smart Like it’s. It’s not. I think it’s more than consistent.Carolyn: 12:23

Yeah.Erin: 12:24

I don’t want to just say consistent it’s. It’s consistent with you know something, that that takes the next shot away from the next person. But yeah, don’t sell yourself short.Carolyn: 12:34

I mean, yeah, I think she’s ridiculously good, yeah, because I can be consistent, but I can’t be consistent against a 4-5 player.Erin: 12:43

Well, she keeps saying back in the court I mean I can probably get to a ball too, but it may not you know I’m going to throw it up in the air and see where it lands.Carolyn: 12:51

We have another episode with Jen where she tells us what she did when she found out she got bumped to 5-0. And also the craziest situation that ever happened to her on the court and she is someone that has won almost all her singles matches the past three years, so there’s been a lot of crazy situations. We hope you check out our website, which is SecondServePodcastcom. Thanks so much for listening and hope to see you on the court soon.

The post Ep. 323 A Journey From 3.5 to 5.0 in Three Years appeared first on Second Serve Tennis Podcast.

Ep. 322: Tennis Can Change Your Life

Carolyn and Erin — Sat, 02 May 2026 14:29:25 +0000

Tennis gives friendships, health, and second chapters. Hear Michele Krause’s most memorable moments. Listen today. What has tennis given you?

Tennis doesn’t have to feel exclusive or overly serious to be a real workout. In our episode (National Hit to be Fit Weekend) Michele shares the vision behind National Hit To Be Fit Weekend (May 15 to 17), a nationwide celebration that pairs National Tennis Month with a simple idea: make the court feel like a party and make it easy for anyone to say yes. Think music under the lights, big group energy, and a format that welcomes the person who has never played alongside the 4.0 who wants a sweat.

For more information on all things Cardio Tennis and National Hit to be Fit Weekend visit: http://Linktr.ee/cardiotennis

Below is a complete transcript of our conversation with Michele Krause

Carolyn 0:08

Hi, this is Carolyn and I’m here with Erin. And this is our final episode with Michele Krause. People refer to Michele as the cardio tennis guru. And in our first episode, we discuss National Hit to Be Fit weekend, and we hope everyone participates. And if you do, let us know. And in the second episode, she tells us why everyone should be taking advantage of the red, orange, and green ball. But in this episode, she tells us a little bit about her experience at Indian Wells and her most memorable moment on the court. So here it is. Okay, Michele, I have to ask you about Indian Wells. You just got back. Tell us all about it. I’ve never been there. It’s on my bucket list. Okay. I want to go. Okay. Can you tell us a little bit about your experience?Michele 0:50

Yeah. Well, you definitely to try to, you know, get there at some point because it, because it is incredible. I was actually

Indian Wells Camp And Adult Beginners

Michele 0:57

helping Gigi Fernandez with her adult tennis camp, which I work with Gigi, you know, for a number of years and do various camps with her. Each camp session is 12 athletes. So I was there for camps one and two. And like as we were talking earlier, like a lot of the those two groups of campers happen to be all female. A lot of times it’s mixed. It just so happened that this was mostly the all gals. And it the amount of the gals that told me that they started playing tennis when they were 30, 40, 50 years old, okay, this is made up a bulk, okay, of those two groups, right? And I love that. And going back to your point, it’s like you can start this sport at at any time. And if you can get exposed to it with red and orange and green balls initially, your experience and you’re probably jumping in and committing to it is going to be better.Carolyn 1:58

Yeah, for the GG camp, are you doing cardio tennis? Are you doing triples?Michele 2:02

Yeah, we we well, there’ll be little tiny pieces. Like um, I will often warm the campers up, uh, cardio tennis style. And then usually we’ll have some opportunities to get in a little bit of triples. Her agenda is pretty, it’s very structured as it should be. Um, and again, it’s it’s a format that works well, and there’s a lot to learn from her methodology from you know, from a strategy and tactical standpoint. So we Yeah, she has the Gigi method.Carolyn 2:32

Yeah, I’ve taken the online GG method and another one. I want to take it in person too. Yeah.Erin 2:38

Another bucket list. Gigi was one of our, well, maybe not one of our first, but she was really early on in our podcast.Carolyn 2:45

Yeah, yeah.Erin 2:46

And she’s excellent. Yeah, she was so, I mean, she’s just so down to earth, you know. I mean, we were like, oh my god, it’s Gigi Fernandez, you know, we were freaking out. And she was just like, we’ll just gonna sit and talk. So I do have a Gigi question for you though, sure specifically. I hope she listens to this.Michele 3:02

I’m gonna tell her to listen.Erin 3:03

How does Gigi Fernandez feel about adults playing with a red ball or a yellow ball?Michele 3:09

She does understand the value of that.Erin 3:13

Okay. Because, you know, there’s people in different camps, depending on like she started, you know, I’m sure as a baby. I mean, she’s how one, how many slams? 17. 17? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I’ve heard, you know, from different people. I think, you know, nowadays we know if you can get in and have fun. I mean, it’s with kids too. If you can introduce them and they have fun and they’re not stressed, you know, they’ll stay in the sport longer. Correct. And so sometimes that means hitting with a different ball. I have also heard people that have started as a kid when those balls didn’t exist and they’re like, you should learn to hit with the green ball immediately or the yellow ball, whatever you want to call it, immediately. But so that’s why I wanted to ask the Gigi question. Yeah.Michele 3:48

So she she she’s very she’s smart and savvy, and she understands the value that those balls um can provide um to any, to any age. Um, now, when we are in adult camp though, um, that is that is yellow ball, rightly so. I mean, and it there’s it again, it’s it’s a it’s strategy and tactical and um um but yeah, she she she is.Erin 4:17

She’s a fan. Yeah, okay, good. Yes. Well, she also doesn’t have people coming to her camp that are like had never, you know, never played league or never hit a ball. They’re there because they want to improve their tennis. So they’re already experienced in hitting that ball. But yes, they could do yes. Another bucket list, Carol. Another bucket list.Carolyn 4:35

It is, it is. G Gigi’s at the top, to be honest for me.Erin 4:39

It’s like Gigi, Indian Wells. Or how about Gigi at Indian Wells?Carolyn 4:43

You gotta do next year. That’s a good thing. Okay, next year.Michele 4:46

Think about that for next year, okay? Because her camps sell out immediately at Indian Wells. Okay. Because then you get to go watch the tennis afterwards. Yeah, yeah. Okay.Carolyn 4:56

I may take this part out so other people don’t exactly. Or leave it in. We’re promoting Gigi as well.Michele 5:03

Um, but yeah, she’s um, you know, her camps are so popular. She has so many repeat customers, and you know, it is very special to be in the presence of somebody of that level of accomplishment, right? Like 17 grand slam doubles titles and two gold medals. I mean, but she’s so welcoming too.Erin 5:25

She’s just so down-to-earth.Carolyn 5:27

Yes, somebody at that level teaching adults.Erin 5:29

Yeah.Carolyn 5:30

You know, like she knows how to teach us to move, understanding like we’re not as fast as we used to be. Some of us can’t move very well, but here’s a strategy for that.Michele 5:40

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. What was probably the highlight for me of the week was uh, I’m not sure if you’re aware of this, but Gigi Fernandez has a uh a tennis foundation called Tennis for Hope. So she had her inaugural founding member

Tennis For Hope And Disaster Relief

Michele 5:58

event um at La Quinta Resort. So La Quinta Resort is pretty iconic, it’s beautiful, it’s amazing. Um, really great event with the Bryan Brothers. They were the, they were like the marquee. Um, of course, Gigi is the marquee. Pam Schreiber was there. Some of the members got to play a tiebreaker again, or with with the Bryan brothers. And and then, yeah, and we had like 50, there were probably 50 to 70 people there, and all the other athletes. Well, we were playing doubles and cardio triples, and then there was a beautiful dinner on the lawn at the stadium courts, and then um the Brian Brothers band played. Yeah, and then uh Gigi and Pam, there was a silent auction, and Pam Shriver was the auctioneer, and she did an incredible job. As I don’t know if she has experience in there, but she she was amazing. And um some amazing prizes were uh auctioned off, and a lot of money was raised to help tennis facilities that have been struck by natural disaster.Erin 7:09

So did she start that? I think she started that after um one of the Florida events, right? She was actually out of her home for a while.Michele 7:17

Yeah, so her house was more or less destroyed um in hurricane season 04, uh 2024. Um, I’ve lost my house to a hurricane. My house was condemned. So back in 2005, I my my house was literally condemned. It had the notice of condemnation uh sign on it. So she’s done some amazing things. She’s uh she’s uh raised a lot of money for Palisades. Uh we actually went to uh Altadena and Palisades while we were there. We did uh Pam Shriver and Gigi did a clinic for kids in Altadena for kids they lost their school during the fire. Um, so a lot of good people are you know donating money so that we can fix or rebuild um these facilities, such and and continue to have tennis. So yeah, that was the highlight.Carolyn 8:07

That was the highlight of my Yeah.Michele 8:09

That doesn’t, that week didn’t suck.Carolyn 8:11

Yeah, yeah. And what a way to use tennis.Erin 8:13

I was gonna say, yeah, use the sport we love and raise money for these great causes. So yeah, it’s it’s a that’s a bonus.Michele 8:20

Gigi and I have a lot of fun together. So when I have the opportunities, um, if I’m invited, um, you know, it’s always a special, it’s always a special experience. So that’s an automatic yes. Yeah.Carolyn 8:32

Tell her we’re coming. Okay. Michele. Okay, well, Carolyn and Erin are on their way. Michele, last time you were on, you mentioned your most memorable moment was what we were talking about it before. Like you got to meet the pope.Erin 8:45

Yeah. Yes. I know, and I was thinking, and I want to hear your most memorable story, but I was thinking, I wonder if the new Pope would be, because he’s an American. I wonder if

Memorable Moments And Tennis Gratitude

Erin 8:53

he’s a tennis player.Michele 8:54

You know, I think you need to put on your bucket list to get back to So the Pope um happens to be from um the South Side of Chicago, which is where I was born and raised. And a lot of, and I went to Catholic high school on the South Side. So a lot of my Catholic high school friends have ties to him, like through, like, okay, you know, my sister’s brother knows, you know, that that sort of thing. And I and I think he might be a tennis player. So he met Sinner, remember?Erin 9:28

That was like the big running joke that Sinner went to meet the Pope, which I think everybody thought was very funny. That was like a meme, like that wrote itself. Right.Michele 9:37

I’ve been talking a lot with my Italian friends to get me out of it out to Italy this year. So we’ll I’m gonna work it. I’m gonna work it. Love it. Love it. Yeah, I do too.Carolyn 9:47

But uh, have you had a most memorable moment since then? That’s hard to top that, but what would you say?Michele 9:53

Yes. Um, I I I’ve had another uh incredible. It’s it’s not really on the like I don’t feel like these things are they’re related to tennis, of course. They happen because of tennis, but they’re not on the tennis court. Okay. Um but since I last chatted with you, um I was able to uh I was invited to go to one of Gigi’s camps um in the British Virgin Islands. Uh-huh. Okay, which is lovely. I mean, going to um so lovely, lovely location. So that was a you know, wow, you know, what a great place to go to. Well, it got even better because it’s it worked out that um we took a private jet there. Yeah. Again, that doesn’t suck.Erin 10:40

That’s pretty nice. Yeah, but how do you go back from there? I know it’s like welcome to commercial airline again.Michele 10:47

It was so like, you know, you say it would like, okay, this is in the top five greatest moments of my life, right? And the the plane was just gorgeous, and the um, you know, it was like six of us gals, and the people were just everybody was lovely, and you know, you’re there and back, and you know, you’re just flying around the Caribbean, and and you’re like, Yeah, you gotta there’s commercial. So exactly.Erin 11:13

I love that. I had a friend recently say we had gone to States and it was a really good group. And she said to me after we got home, that was the best weekend of my life.Michele 11:23

Yeah.Erin 11:23

She literally used those words. And I said, Um, you’re married and you have two children. Are you sure you don’t want to restate that? And she goes, Okay. In the tennis world, right? It was the best weekend of my life. Yeah. So I get it.Michele 11:35

But I think, I mean, I think we all agree. If you talk to like we all know all the blessings that tennis has have get have have given us, right? Whether it’s, you know, our friendship, sometimes our best friends, sometimes our significant others, right? The people that we get to meet, the places that we get to go. I mean, it’s, you know, tennis, uh, it it’s given us our health, right? I mean, like, it’s it’s, you know, for me personally, it’s given me everything. So I’m very grateful.Carolyn 12:04

We greatly appreciate Michele coming on the podcast. We’ve included links in our show notes where you can learn more about National Hit to Be Fit weekend. Thanks so much for listening and hope to see you on the court soon.

The post Ep. 322: Tennis Can Change Your Life appeared first on Second Serve Tennis Podcast.

Ep. 321: Why Being A Tennis Captain Is Hard (Part 2)

Carolyn and Erin — Sat, 25 Apr 2026 14:21:22 +0000

Our first episode, Captaining Sucks! was so popular that we’re doing a second episode. We’ve had many people reach out to tell us they were saying “yes!” while listening to us talk to Aileen about how captaining USTA tennis teams can suck in multiple ways.

Captaining Sucks!

Here are some other episodes we’ve recorded about captaining a tennis team (including last week’s episode):

Here’s a complete transcript of our episode with Aileen:

Carolyn: 0:08
Hi, this is Carolyn and I’m here with Erin and this is part two of our episode with Aileen discussing why captaining is so hard. Both Erin and Aileen have captained teams for more than a decade. If you haven’t listened to part one, we hope you go back and listen. But here’s part two.

Erin: 0:25
Let’s talk about flipping courts a little bit, and everybody calls this different. What was the other term, Carolyn, that someone used?

Carolyn: 0:30
Rolling. Are you going to roll courts?

Erin: 0:33
Rolling courts. I don’t even know what that means, but that sounds like bowling or you know, bocce to me or something. But anyway, we call it flipping.

Carolyn: 0:39
Yes, because she said did you roll?

Erin: 0:41
Yes, are they going to roll?

Carolyn: 0:43
Erin: 0:43
We call it flipping. So I was asking Aileen, before we started recording as a captain, if you’re going into a match. So at our 4-0 level and at 3-5, I think everything except 2-5, I think 2-5 plays three courts only, so they play one singles in, two at least in our area I don’t know about every area In our area 2-5s play one court of singles, two courts of doubles and everything above that plays five courts, so two with a caveat, two courts of singles and three courts of doubles, except for now the 40 over, which is only one singles Nonetheless. Do you quote flip? Would you consider flipping, like if you have a really strong singles player and maybe a weaker one, would you maybe flip those two courts and put your stronger one on, let’s say, singles two, hoping that the team you’re playing against is playing straight up to win a singles court, to kind of guarantee nothing’s guaranteed but to hopefully win a singles court, and then, maybe, you know, flip your doubles courts to just try to get two of your doubles courts so that you get three out of the five. And I know other areas count points. I don’t think they do it exactly like us. We’re literally just win the majority of the courts right. So we have to win three out of five courts each week for a team win. So what’s your philosophy on doing that?

Aileen: 1:57
For the most part, I play straight up, and the reason being I feel like it would be that one time that they decided to switch for some reason because odds are, if they’re scared of us, we’re scared of them, kind of thing, or it’s getting tight, you know, in the rankings and it comes down to this match or for whatever reason. Having said that, I do, especially for playoffs and things like that I will look at every team and I will put every person and what court they played and when and I think that happened this last spring for playoffs or no, we didn’t make playoffs For some team I captained that made it playoffs. At some point this last year. I went through there and did that and it’s like, yes, and somebody was telling me you need to switch, you need to flip, you need to flip, and I’m like, yeah, but look, they flipped this time, they flipped that Honestly any and when playoffs come, people could do things that they’ve never done before. So I think if you just play straight up, then your conscious is clear. And not only that, but I have. Sometimes there’s a big disparity in my one, in my two, or my one in my three on doubles courts, and I don’t want anybody to feel like I’m throwing them under the bus Now, having said that, if it is a tight match and I had a team that realized they were a weaker team and came to me and said this is what I think you should do, put us there, then I would probably do that. But I think it would have to come to them and I’ve heard of that done to other captains and things like that and teams. I’ve been available, I’ve been on. People have come up and said I think you need to switch.

Erin: 3:37
Aline and I also talked about, if you like there are some. So what you have to think of as a captain, art. There are some players that just mentally don’t want to be on certain courts, right, some players think they’re really good and they get mad if you put them on three. Some people think they’re really bad and if you put them on one, they just mentally break down and you might think their court one doubles player, you know what. So you have to again, as a captain, you have to constantly also think about people’s mentality and what they think of their own play and where they feel like they should be. And I’m sure you’ve had people say just don’t put me on one, yeah, all the time, and they might be like your. You know your best player, so anyway, that’s. That is really good point. I am one of those people, carolin, that likes to play on one. Because, number one, I feel like I’m gonna get the best tennis. Whether I win or lose, I’m gonna get. You know, if someone’s playing straight up, you’re probably gonna face their toughest play, your opponents toughest players. And two, it takes the pressure off me because I think if I win my court, yeah, me, and if I lose my court, I’m like well, I just played the best person, so you’ll need to clean it up on the rest of the court.

Carolyn: 4:40
So People don’t realize their strength necessarily okay, I have a question what’s your number one pet peeve as a captain, from a player’s perspective, just so that I know what’s your number one pet peeve that people do. Is it not responding? Is it telling you after the fact how you should have done the line up?

Aileen: 4:57
I have one for this you go, it’s saying I’m in when you’re in a group or something, we really want to play together, we really want to play together and then getting the text or the call right afterwards okay, I know I said that, but I’d rather not play with her, I’d rather play with somebody else. Again, multiple times, again, different people, multiple times doesn’t happen in men’s tennis.

Erin: 5:19
Oh, I don’t know what would be my biggest pet peeve. I think just feeling like when I have made lineups and thought them all through and people give me their availability and then I put out a lineup and then they go oh no, I’m not available that day and I’m like yes, and that happens more in makeup matches. Regular season is like but you’ll get if you do a makeup match. It’s a you know you get a rain out and then you say, okay, give me three or four dates that I can then go to the other team, and then you take Half of your day it seems like four hours of your day or something. You’re working with the other captain and you’ve you’ve scheduled the match and then you go back to your team. You’re like, okay, you’re playing, you know these two players at this location on this day, and then someone goes what? I can’t actually play that day. I’m like I feel like I’m being punked, like my head, literally, like emoji, explodes. So that is definitely my number one.

Aileen: 6:11
But having said that, on that, which that’s a whole nother podcast in this area is dealing with rain makeup. Yes, but Sometimes it takes a long time. It’s like, okay, you’ve got your lineup, you think you can play these courts, and you go to the other team and you tell them and then it’s crickets for a little while and 24 hours later you hear from them and by that time you know it’s rain for three days straight. So another team that this person’s playing on his already booked a match and so now you’re out is kind of like, okay, you gotta take it off. Yes, don’t know, it’s tough yeah, yeah. Why, captain sucks. Yeah, that, that part stuff. Yeah, checking courts that’s.

Erin: 6:47
Yeah, you do the best can exactly, we do the best we can.

Aileen: 6:55
For the pay grade.

Carolyn: 6:57
Thank you to all the captains out there listening to Aaron and a link discuss. This has made me very appreciative for all my captains. If any other captains listening have any other pet peeves, please let us know. You can message us on our website, which is second, sir podcast dot com. Thanks so much for listening and hope to see you on the court soon.

The post Ep. 321: Why Being A Tennis Captain Is Hard (Part 2) appeared first on Second Serve Tennis Podcast.

Ep. 320: Why Being A Tennis Captain Is Hard

Carolyn and Erin — Sat, 18 Apr 2026 14:12:02 +0000

Why is being the captain of an adult recreation team so difficult? If you are a new USTA captain this episode is for you!

Both Erin and Aileen have captained multiple teams for more than a decade! Erin made a list of why being the captain is so hard or why it sucks and Aileen discusses her experiences as captain. Erin and Aileen give great advice and Carolyn listens and laughs and feels very appreciative of people willing to step up and captain!

Captaining Sucks!

Here are some other episodes we’ve recorded about captaining a tennis team:

Here’s a complete transcript of our episode with Aileen:

Carolyn: 0:09
Hi, this is Carolyn, and I’m here with Erin, and we really appreciate Aileen being here. This was Erin’s idea, because she made a list of why being the captain is hard or we were actually laughing before the episode as why captaining sucks. Both Erin and Aileen have captained multiple teams each year for over a decade. So, Erin, do you want to start with your list?

Erin: 0:32
So I wrote some notes down and I’m just going to ask you a couple questions what you think. So I think one of the worst parts of captaining is picking the team. Do you agree with that?

Aileen: 0:43
Yeah, for me personally we’re out of a country club setting and the first part of the team is pretty easy because we don’t even have 15 people at our club that are at that level and our roster limitations are at 15. So everybody at that rating gets a spot. I think it really gets complicated when you have 25 people that want to play on one team and then you have to divide up and how do you go and how all that works, which you’ve had to deal with that before but as far as that goes for me personally, I look at it then and see what I need. For instance, at the 4-0 level, we don’t have singles players or people that want to play singles more than a couple times during the season, and so when I look to fill again, I don’t have a huge poll of 4-0s to go after I go to the 3-5s and I have to look for singles players.

Erin: 1:40
So that’s actually one of the things that I was thinking of. So I now play at the same club as Aileen and Carolyn for ever and ever. It’s my soft spot, it will always be my home. But I’m at another club now where we have a bigger pool of people to choose from. But sometimes it seems unfair to put a 3-5 on a 4-0 team when a 4-0 might need a spot. But it is sort of one of those things Like I might have a 3-5 that’s a better singles player or wants to play singles every week or is dedicated, and I think generally, the reason why I wanted to do this episode was just to let people know like there are a lot of people that just pick their friends or pick who they like or whatever. But it is very strategic and I think some people that have never captained before don’t realize that there is a lot of thought that goes into it and it’s not just like I’m just a jerk of a captain because I put a 3-5 on a team and I just didn’t want that 4-0. That might not necessarily be the case.

Aileen: 2:36
Not at all, especially because you also don’t want to take the 4-0s, who obviously can’t play 3-5 and put them on singles courts when they really don’t want to be there. I mean, this is for fun. That’s what it all amounts to. I mean this is recreational. Yeah, so you don’t like. Would you even sign up if you had to play singles when you didn’t want anything to do with singles, or your body wouldn’t take singles anymore? Or whatever the reason, then, yeah. Yeah.

Erin: 3:03
And that’s a good point. Like captaining sucks, because you also are you have to remember exactly what you said, which is it is for fun, and so you don’t want to make it not fun for you don’t want to make a someone else’s experience not fun. When they’re paying to be there, they’re paying to be part of a club or even part of their city courts or whatever. So, yeah, it’s just not an easy job.

Aileen: 3:23
That’s why yeah, no, I stopped captaining for, I think, just a year or two, at 40 plus, when I had two singles courts because I didn’t have the singles players and I had to put somebody who didn’t want to be there all the time and it’s like then they were miserable and made me miserable. And it’s just, you hated to send out those lineups, knowing someone’s going to be upset, and you try to pass it around. But some people I mean they had double knee replacement Okay, now you can’t put them on a singles court. I’m sorry.

Erin: 3:53
Right.

Aileen: 3:55
You love to pass it around, but yeah.

Erin: 3:57
So we’re just getting into spring, coming up into spring, and I’m I am going to captain a team reluctantly Normally I only captain summer singles because I only need three people each week. But this week, this year, I’m going to do a spring team. But so I’m starting to pull my players to find out who they like to play with, who they feel comfortable on a court with, who they feel like they could win with, because you know you want to win. I mean, the whole point is to have fun, but also winning is fun, it makes for fun. So I’m trying to pull my players to ask them who they play well with and who they feel like they don’t play well with. And I was at a practice the other day and I walked out with these two women and I said, hey, have you emailed us yet your preferences? And they said, well, I feel bad saying who like you, just put me wherever. And I said, no, if we’re going to go for wins, we need to know from you and we won’t necessarily share that information. But that’s another part that just kind of sucks about being a captain, because you need to have people be honest with you about who they feel comfortable with and who they might be the best of friends, but they might not play well together.

Aileen: 5:04
And I think people yes, and I think people say, oh, you can put me with anybody and they genuinely want to just be a team player and are happy with that and that’s great. But for all those out there, when you do that, it actually kind of makes it harder, and usually the people that are so easy going and easy to captain are those people, and yet you don’t want to put them, maybe with a weaker player or somebody that’s more difficult to pair or things like that, because you really need them to say I would love to play with these people. These will be my top three choices, not just one. I’ll only play with this person. We have those people too, don’t get me wrong. Yeah, but I would love to play with, like in name, three or four names, right, but I’m happy to play with anybody. Don’t hesitate to put me with anybody on the team and I’m good that’s a better way to say it. That at least gives us some guidance on where you’re thinking.

Erin: 6:00
Yeah, yeah, that’s the best team player right there, yeah, okay. So another point is as a captain. I think you should not be the keeper of all people’s tennis, and what I mean by that is as a captain. You’re then the one in charge of lineups and communication with other teams, and so you kind of have this busy role throughout your season. But then sometimes you want to set up like a team clinic or a team practice, and then people sort of you know it might be like, oh, I’m going to captain in the spring, so let’s set up a clinic and just kind of see who good partnerships are in the set and the other, and then people rely on you to do that week after week. So I don’t know. Then I then that’s when I’m like I’m not your personal secretary, your tennis secretary.

Aileen: 6:43
You get that a lot and that gets, it gets old. And then people don’t come. It’s like do you want this, do you not want this? I don’t know. I tend to organize, like we’ve done some trips and so for the team and things like that, and I do kind of a kickoff event, yeah, and I’m going to do that again this year. We did that last year just for team bonding. We had a lot of new people last year and so it was like get to know you type stuff, yeah. But as far as the clinic, somebody else was doing clinics and that was all fun. But as far as inviting people to play, they do look to you to organize practices and you know. Then it’s like if you play on your own, then they get offended If they weren’t invited to play on there with you. And it’s like this is what I have to say. They have a phone and they can reserve a court too. Right, they can ask me to play.

Erin: 7:37
They don’t organize anything.

Aileen: 7:39
Is that my fault? I mean, everybody can organize fun tennis Right, and some people just don’t want to. They want to be asked all the time.

Erin: 7:47
Yeah, all the time. I’m sure you’ve gotten someone that said you never asked me to practice and you’re like you could ask me to practice.

Aileen: 7:53
Right, exactly. Well, that’s just it. I’m happy if I’m available. Phone goes both ways.

Erin: 7:58
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I’m giggling because as soon as you said that, I was thinking, you know when this doesn’t happen. Is men’s tennis? No, which too bad. Mike’s not on? Yeah, have you guys captained Ben. Oh, I like to mix doubles. Well, I know that’s drama. Can you talk about that, Carolyn?

Carolyn: 8:18
From Mike’s perspective. I think the only thing that Mike said and I’d like to hear your pet peeves from captaining just real quick, some of the ones that you guys have is that men don’t respond.

Aileen: 8:27
Yes.

Carolyn: 8:27
Yeah, not at all. So you don’t know if they’re going to show up. They, you know, it’s not that they, they’re not going to get mad at you for what court they’re on. It’s that you don’t know if they’re actually going to show up to play on the court, right?

Aileen: 8:38
Yeah, oh yeah, I have for my mixed teams. I have to call one guy and then he asks another guy on the team because he’s going to run into. He’ll respond to him, but he won’t respond to me Exactly. Because they kind of work together. Right and so it’s like, okay, you won’t pick up for me, but you’ll pick up for them. You let me know and I’m like hit the end, but we should do a whole another podcast on the differences between men’s captain, captain men’s teams and women’s teams.

Erin: 9:04
I think we should do that for sure. And just to reiterate all those other points that I said and this is why it’s hard to captain is at some point someone, at least one person, will hate you at some point for being the captain, even though you’ve thought about the lineups and you’ve thought about their feelings and you’ve thought about what courts you should put them on and you thought about how to get best, get them a win and how to get them to practice, and they will. Eventually, at least one person will absolutely think that you’re the worst, completely. All the time.

Aileen: 9:36
And it’s like those people you mentioned it before it’s the I don’t want to play one. I don’t want to play one because, okay, they’re mental about one, no problem. And then so I keep them on three. They’re getting wins. They’re not killing people, right, they might lose a couple, but they’re getting some wins, so they’re successful. We’re good there. That’s kind of how I think about it. Okay, that’s you always try to get people to have a successful season. Yes, that’s what you want, yeah. And then I had somebody come up to me and was like you know, we can play a higher core, right, we can play one. Like, why aren’t you putting me on one? Because you specifically said not to and you’re barely pulling out three. But you know that kind of thing. Yep, it’s why captain means you do the best you can and you don’t get paid.

Erin: 10:17
Yeah, like Exactly yeah. There’s no glory in it, unless you take a team to to play offs and then you take them to states and then. But even in that there’s going to be someone’s you know, someone’s going to be upset at some point.

Aileen: 10:31
Honestly, my two cents on that is. Third place is a beautiful place to be where you don’t have to go to states, you don’t have to go to playoffs, but you had a winning season.

Carolyn: 10:40
But you had a winning season.

Aileen: 10:42
Everybody’s successful because people change when they go to.

Erin: 10:47
When it gets competitive, more and more competitive.

Aileen: 10:49
Agreed yes.

Erin: 10:50
Yeah.

Carolyn: 10:52
There’s one more episode where Aaron and Aileen discuss why captain is hard or why it sucks, and they also tell us their number one pet peeve as a captain. Thanks so much for listening and hope to see you on the courts soon.

The post Ep. 320: Why Being A Tennis Captain Is Hard appeared first on Second Serve Tennis Podcast.

Ep. 319: Why Red, Orange, And Green Balls Help Rec Players

Carolyn and Erin — Sat, 11 Apr 2026 21:21:54 +0000

Want a simple way to level up your game fast? The tennis ball you choose can change how your body feels, how fast you learn, and whether practice builds confidence or fear. We sit down with coach Michele Krause to make a clear case for red, orange, and green balls as powerful tools for adult recreational tennis players,

For more information on all things Cardio Tennis and National Hit to be Fit Weekend visit: http://Linktr.ee/cardiotennis

Here’s a complete transcript of our conversation with Michele:

Returning After Surgery With Red

Carolyn 0:07

Hi, this is Carolyn, and I’m here with Erin. And this is our second episode with Michele Krause. In the first one, she discussed National Hit to Be Fit weekend, and we’ll link to that in our show notes. In this episode, she tells us why all recreational players can take advantage of the red, orange, or green ball. So here it is. But I will tell you with like the red ball and the orange ball, I had to take a break from tennis um for a health issue. Right. And then I came back, I’ve had all my lymph nodes removed from one of my arms. And I came back um with the red ball. Okay. Red ball. So orange ball. And now I’m back to the regular ball and I’m fine. Never had lymphedema. Everything was great.

Why Slower Balls Should Be Normal

Michele 0:48

Okay. Because that I wanted to talk about that with the two of you. And and I didn’t know, Carolyn, like what how that progressed for you. And it makes me so happy. And this is a message that like you obviously can share because you experienced it at the foundation gala uh the other day in Indian Wells, one of the members there who couldn’t play because she was had just had a, you know, a surgery, etc. And I told her, when you’re ready to come back, when you’re ready to hit that ball, okay, please tell your coach, okay, that you need to start with red and orange. Okay, and that will save you because and most coaches don’t know this, and they just put the yellow ball out there. Okay, so whatever the health issue has been, okay, if you go back with yellow ball, okay, that ball is gonna one, it’s gonna bounce really high. Um, it’s moving faster. So in your brain, you’re like, I gotta go, I gotta move. And then you make a movement that you that one probably should not have made based upon their injury slash health situation. And now you’ve taken another step back. All right. And, you know, starting with the red ball, working more in a short cord until you start feeling comfortable with that, then go to the orange ball, add a little distance, that sort of thing. And the the gal that I was talking to, she was so grateful for that tip. You know, it had never you know crossed her mind. She probably didn’t even think about it, but she was she was so happy because she’s been doing since her surgery, she’s been doing all the right things. And Carolyn, I know I’m sure you have done all the right things as well in your journey. And you don’t want, you don’t want to have a step back. Yeah. So yay, red and orange ball. Yes. It still amazes me that we’re okay. If you look at other sports, okay, um, if if if someone in the golf world, okay, and I am not a golfer, but my husband is, okay, there are, I believe, four different T spots to tee off from. So obviously the difference is in distance. Okay. So you have that T spot that is closer to the whole. Okay, so there’s built-in things, and that’s a training tool. Okay, that’s a built-in way to make the sport easier. Okay, maybe you know, a lot of 90 plus people play golf. Okay, well, they’re not hidden off the pro tee, they’re hidden off the rookie tee. And guess what? They can still play the sport. So why we get hung up on these balls is just beyond me. All right. It’s a ball. If you are, if you have a racket and a ball and you’re hitting it, okay, then then life is good.Carolyn 3:49

I didn’t grow up playing tennis, right? Don’t kids now like there’s the orange ball tournament, not orange ball tournaments, but you use an orange ball. There’s a progression. Yeah. Yeah. Isn’t there a progression?

A Rally Challenge For Real Control

Michele 4:00

Yeah. So and the progression with kids. Yeah, the progression is red, orange, green. And and the thing is, I think what people also don’t understand is who whatever your skill level is, there’s always moments when you need to be going back and forth. Okay. There are circumstances. Well, I might be, I might be a 14-year-old greenball player, okay, but there’s gonna be skills that you’re gonna need to work on that you need to use the red or the orange for. So it’s not just like, okay, I I’ve I’ve worked my way up to yellow and I’m never gonna hit those other balls again. They’re train, they’re a training tool. All right. It’s like um, I always use the reference of a personal trainer. So a personal trainer has many tools in their toolkit, right? And just from dumbbells, you have all different weights of dumbbells, okay? You need all of them, okay, based upon that activity. In cardio tennis and our warm up and cooldown, there’s so many um activities that we do that require skill, okay, that actually require feel, touch, and spin. Okay. And a lot of our adult athletes um need a lot of work in that area. Yes. And it’s not, and it’s and I and I don’t mean that disrespectfully, okay. In fact, I kind of blame coaches on that because the coaches are not teaching them. Okay. So can you, and here’s here’s a here’s a challenge I will shout out to your listeners, okay? Um, go out with one of your friends and get into like the red court. You can you can go over the net from the service line, that’s fine. Okay, and see how many times you can rally a red ball over the net and keep it in the lines. All right. I mean, it sounds so simple, but unfortunately, many of our, and that’s what that’s with the red ball, and then work your, you know, work your way up. Can you hit 10 in a row? And if you can, if you can hit 10 in a row, that’s great, but ultimately I need you to hit 100 in a row.unknown 5:54

Okay.Erin 5:54

I have terrible volleys. Which ball should be practical?Michele 5:57

I’m so glad we’re talking about this.Erin 5:59

So bad my volleys are, and I blame my coach way back when, when I started at 40.Michele 6:04

And you can blame me too, because I’m a coach and I, you know, I’ll take all these. Okay.

Fixing Volleys With Orange And Triples

Erin 6:09

Um Carolyn knows what coach I’m gonna blame.Michele 6:11

Yeah.Erin 6:12

So don’t worry, he’s not a listener.Michele 6:13

I would say, I would say, um, Erin, um, you know, again, you are a very typical female recreational tennis player. Okay, and I mean that in a great way. Oh no.Erin 6:25

Yep.Michele 6:26

And most gals, unfortunately, are afraid to be at the net. Yeah, because somehow, at some point, this hard yellow ball came at them or they got hit or whatnot. All right. So um definitely one should be starting their volley journey with with an orange ball minimally. Okay. Um, I will, I will, when I when I train, when I’m doing coach education, I will always state to a group, you know, what is what is one of the toughest skills in tennis? Well, reflex volleying. Okay. One of the toughest skills to do in tennis. And using a yellow ball is gonna make that a hundred times harder. So can you reflex volley with a partner with an orange or a green ball? Like, can you literally keep it in play and be cooperative? So those are the signs of skill, actual, actual lack or lack of skill. And it is humbling, okay? Like I do want to say, like, you’re gonna be uncomfortable. It’s going to be humbling, okay? But that’s okay. We need to be uncomfortable, we need to be a little humble because we need to know where we where we need to get to, right? Um, and so yeah, so it it it will show that will show reflex volley is gonna show up the weaknesses um pretty quickly. But I think that any recreational player can quickly improve their volley skills if they practice with orange and green, and more importantly, if they play triples. Okay, because triples forces you to be at the net. And what I always coach the athletes on in triples is I want them to be aggressive and go for everything. Because if they miss, they have two people to back them up, right? Because they’re afraid. I mean, I watch it all that time. I watch, and it’s men and women, okay? They’re at the net and they just want the balls literally like right there, and they let it go by them.Erin 8:37

Well, the other thing you can’t do in triples that you can do in doubles, because I find myself doing it all the time, and then I’m like, I need a magnet that keeps me at the net. Okay. But in triples, you can’t do what I do in doubles, which is like, I’ll be up there for a little bit, and then I’m like, I find myself on backtracking. Fading back. Fading back, yeah. And in triples, you have two people, you’re not gonna have three people on the baseline because then you’re gonna be out of room. Right. So it does force you to stay at the net. Exactly. But yeah, I’m gonna switch to that that ball and start over my volley journey.Michele 9:06

For our listeners, uh, you know, again, ask your coaches to, if you’re having a clinic or something, to play 10 minutes of triples in that clinic with the with the orange ball. And um, and or go out and practice with your one of your teammates or one of your besties. Um, my favorite ball is the green ball. I mean, I hit the green, I try, I train green ball all the time, and I’m I’m high skill and I’m high fitness. Okay. And it’s also easier on your body. So if you have wrist issues, elbow issues, shoulder issues, many, many reasons that that could all be happening, but I’m telling you, the yellow ball is not helping it. Okay, think about how hard and fast that ball is coming at you and the amount of absorption absorption of force that those body parts and joints are taking because of the yellow ball.Erin 10:01

Yeah. Who knew we’d get on such a kick about tennis balls? I love it. I do too. This is so exciting. A whole nother episode.Michele 10:10

Exactly. I’m I’m I’m I’m so when I was, you know, thinking about our time together, I really wanted to cover this topic, and I think you’ve covered it just fabulously. So thank you.Erin 10:19

Very well. Yes, thank you.

Green Ball Training And Closing

Carolyn 10:21

Thanks again to Michele for coming on the podcast. We have one more episode where she discusses her experience being part of the Gigi Fernandez camp at Indian Wells. Also, we’ve included links in our show notes to learn more about National Hit to Be Fit weekend. Thanks so much for listening and hope to see you on the court soon.

The post Ep. 319: Why Red, Orange, And Green Balls Help Rec Players appeared first on Second Serve Tennis Podcast.

Ep. 318: Beat Better Players

Carolyn and Erin — Sat, 04 Apr 2026 21:17:26 +0000

What do you do if your opponents are only hitting to the lower rated player? What are some tactics for playing against higher level players? Francie Barragan is here to give advice for playing combo or across different levels!

We are replaying a few of our most popular episodes and this was one of them!

Francie played college tennis for NC State and was the Assistant Coach for NC State after graduating. She was the Head Coach at Methodist University, the Director of Professional Tennis Management at Methodist University, the Director of Tennis at MacGregor Downs Country Club, and is a PTR & USPTA certified pro. She is currently the USTA Southern Manager of Coach Development and Training and the Tennis Service Representative for North Carolina.

She was inducted into Methodist University Athletics Hall of Fame, the Fayetteville, NC Sports Club Hall of Fame, named PTR Pro of year for NC, and received the USTA NC Lifetime Achievement award.

Tennis is booming and needs more coaches! If you would like to learn to coach you can contact Francie at Barragan@sta.usta.com.

Here’s a complete transcript of our conversation with Francie:

Carolyn 0:05

Hi, this is Carolyn and I’m here with Erin, and this is part two of our conversation with Francie Barragan. Francie played college tennis for NC State. She was the head coach at Methodist University and also was the director of tennis at the McGregor Downs Country Club in Kerry, North Carolina. She is currently the USTA Southern Manager of Coach Development and Training and the Tennis Service Representative for North Carolina. If you want to learn some tactics for playing against players that hit with less pace, please check out part one. But here is part two.Erin 0:34

Okay, so the opposite of that question is what are some tac tactics for playing against higher level players? Sometimes I feel like I’m just out of my league, you know? Like, you know, sometimes I’m like, I’m I’m outskilled, I’m outplayed, I’m they’ve just have more more experience than me. So maybe give some ideas about playing higher-rated players.Francie 0:53

Good question. So of course, in any match, whether it’s the same skill level, lower rated, higher rated, we want to start out using our strengths. Uh seeing if we can just win with our strengths. And ideally, we would be able to win every match with our strengths, but that doesn’t always happen. So if it’s a higher-rated player and they’re just out rallying you that day, you know you’re not gonna be able to beat them just with with your game plan. Um, I’m gonna flip that question and get the two of you thinking what if you have ever lost to someone that maybe is a lower-rated player, what did they do to you? Consistency.Carolyn 1:28

Consistency. Yes, they are consistent. They just got it back.Erin 1:32

Yeah, every ball back. Yeah, that’s actually true.Francie 1:36

That is true. So one of two things, either that, where you take them out of their rhythm, and maybe you throw in, I know we said we like to hit the ball hard, but maybe we throw in a couple lobs over the net player’s head, maybe it’s slice, whatever we can do so that they’re not in the rhythm that they like. And if that’s not working, then another option is if we are that aggressive-minded player that likes to hit it hard, rather than trying to overpower them and hitting 10 straight, powerful forehands, maybe we hit one or two powerful forehands and we get into the net, and then we force them to come up with the goods. The pressure’s on them to hit the winner, to hit the law, but you know, whatever it might be. Um, but suddenly if they know they can outrally you, they’re gonna be very comfortable just staying back there and and doing that rally.Erin 2:18

I played a woman this week. Carolyn, you’ve played her the way she had like an amazing slice hard at my feet return. And so we were losing a lot of points. That’s why we lost the first. In the second, I finally figured out if I gave her kind of like a much like lobbier serve, and I hate to say that because you know I can hit a hard serve, but when I just kind of like got it in the box and with a lot more spin on it, not like I don’t have a kick serve, so let’s we won’t call it that, but I’ll call it a lobby serve. I know what I know what a kick serve is, I don’t have it, but I do have like a you know, I can kind of lob it in there. Or it would still come back with slice, but it would come back high into my strike zone. And I was like, And of course we lost the second five, seven, but I’m like, if we had figured that out in the first, that might have made all the difference in the world. But it was like we were just trying to throw the kitchen sink at them, like everything was working for them, nothing was kind of working for us, so you know, um, but that was one of the tactics that I used. I’m like, I okay, I have to change my serve because her return was just killing it every time and getting points off that.Francie 3:18

So that’s smart.Erin 3:19

And from what I asked, you could put it all together earlier.Francie 3:22

Exactly. Well, what I asked you earlier, if you’d ever lost to a lower-rated player, it sounded like they did that exact same thing. Take the pace off, consistency, probably gave you an off-pace serve out of your strike zone. Um, so really when you’re playing against that better player, you know, take yourself back to what makes you uncomfortable when you’re playing against players that you should beat.Erin 3:41

Yeah. I remember I I won a I will never forget the singles match. There was a a lot of factors. The woman had her child out there. He was do you remember this story, Carolyn? He was um heckling me.Carolyn 3:53

Yes, I do remember the story, yes.Erin 3:55

But I but I won, and it was a super frustrating match, not just because her child was heckling me. The whole night was just frustrating. But I literally remember I will never forget that match because I won in match tie break against her the very last serve. I literally, and this is not a a knock against any two five because there’s a lot of two fives that have good serves, but I as a three-five or four-row at the time, I two five served her the softest serve I could do, but still get in the box, and she slammed it into the net. And I was like, yes, winner.Francie 4:26

I actually had a college teammate at NC State that did that some. And you know, and when she won the point, she’d get excited and pump her fist, and that made the opponents even more upset. I mean, they wanted to throw their racket because here they are playing in the ACC, and this uh my teammate was just throwing in a lobster. Yeah, yeah.Carolyn 4:43

Well, they say winning ugly.Francie 4:45

It works, you know, that drove them crazy.Carolyn 4:50

Okay, and I I know you said you you get this question a lot too, and it’s when I play a lower-rated player, our opponents never hit the ball to me. What do I do in this case? And I have a story after you tell the answer to this.Francie 5:02

Well, I know everybody usually it crosses their mind to say, well, you go stand in the alley or maybe even sit on the bench and I’ll take over. But um, but that’s not what we want to do. We’re here to make some friends. So um, really, if they’re not hitting the ball to you, let’s take it at a few different angles. If you’re the player at the net and your partner’s at the baseline, I I think uh Carolyn said you were a basketball player growing up. I like to relate it to basketball. In basketball, you have assists. Uh, and I like to think of it as I’m trying to assist my partner. I might not get to hit the ball, but I’m gonna try to help her win that point. And by doing that, I’m I’m faking, I’m poaching, I’m closing into the net. I am just moving all the time. So my opponents have no clue where I’m gonna be. And ultimately, if they’re trying to play keep away from me, if they don’t know where I’m gonna be, that adds some stress to their life and some uncertainty. So I might not always poach and get the ball, but as long as I’m moving, then they know they have to go for a little more and I’m getting that assist. Um, if I’m the baseliner and my partner’s at the net, the temptation for the lower-rated player is to start scooting back a little bit. There’s a fast-paced ball coming out back off the net. When actually in actuality, that makes it easier for them to dip it at your feet and a harder volley for you. And if you’re the lower-rated player, the last thing you want to do is have to hit a harder volley against a better player. So I’ll try to get my partner to scoot in a little tighter on the net, uh, as long as I’m ready to run down the lobs potentially. And then they get the easier volley. You know, most people don’t want to hit it to a net player if you know the net player is going to get a high volley. So if my partner scoots in, they’re getting the high volley. Suddenly, you know, no one wants to give someone a high volley. So I start getting a few more ground strokes until they start lobbing over my partner. Then then we have to figure that out. Um that way reset and new time. But at least it works for a little while. Yeah. And then one other solution a lot of teams have is well, let’s go both back, which sometimes we need to do if they’re lobbying. But then that makes it easier for them to keep away from the better player. So what I’m doing in that scenario is I’m gonna tell my partner, okay, you know, if you’re getting every ground stroke, let’s look to step into it and get into the net. Um, and we’ll move forward either together or maybe I once again I’m just looking for opportunities to put my partner up there in that winning position where they can build their confidence and get some of those easier volleys, and I’ll I’ll take care of everything that might go over her head or or you know, to the baseline where I can keep us in the point. But I see a lot of uh teams, let’s just stay back and and you know, really if you can get your partner up there closer to the net to hit some winners, that’s gonna build their confidence and then that can turn the momentum of the match.Carolyn 7:33

That’s great advice. So I was at the 6-5 state tournament and I was the lower-rated player. So I was a 3-0, and we lost a match, and it was an important match. And afterwards, the 3-5 told me like five times. They just she just didn’t know what to do because all they did was hit the ball to me. They weren’t hitting it to her, they were only hitting it to me. And so I wish, you know, I wish during the match we could have figured some of that out. Because at the end, for her to say that, I’m like, okay, I get it. I was the worst one on the floor. And I’m the reason we’ve lost. That’s how I translated it as well.Francie 8:08

Well, yeah, and and we all know, but because we’ve all been in that situation where you’re the one getting picked on, you know you’re getting picked on. Um, so if your partner can say, hey, you know, close in, take some risks, I gotcha. You know, if they hit it over your head, um, then then yes, you’re you’re putting yourself in an easier position to win the point. And if your partner can help you out by moving a little bit, then that takes some pressure off too. Yeah. If she would approach a little bit, maybe she would. Yeah, there you go.Carolyn 8:33

I’m excited. She she was right. I was I was the worst one on the court.Erin 8:37

So I actually had a funny story. I played, I think it was seven, five years ago, and I was playing with a woman who I was three, five, she was a four-o, but she was getting ready to get bumped to four five. I mean, she was well above everybody on the court. She was well above our skill level, right? And she did the, and I’m sure Francie, you’ve probably heard this from other players. She goes, she gets frustrated, she hits the ball out, you know, somebody gave her no pace or whatever it was, right? And she looks at me and sighs and says, I just cannot play at this level. And I looked at her and I said, I am your handicap. You have to play at this level because I am not this good to be on this court. Like I was a, I might have even been a 3-0 playing as a three-five. And she was like, we might have been a on a 7-5 court, but I may not have even been a three-five. I might have been playing up. And I literally said, You better stick in this because you gotta, you’re the higher ranked player. Like, it’s up to you. There, there, you know, I’m not there’s not a lot I can do here, but I just remember like exactly what court I was on, what club I was at, and telling her straight up, get get your act together because you’re gonna be the reason why we win or lose. You know, you gotta make it happen. So and then she quit tennis after that. She got bumped to four or five. Well, she didn’t have anyone to play with, so she literally did quit right after that. Not after that match, but after that season.Francie 9:56

Okay.Erin 9:57

I know. Now she would have plenty. This was years ago, but now we have tons of four fives in our area. So she could have she would have stuck with it. But I just remember kind of not yelling at her, but basically telling her, giving her a pep talk that she better get it together.

Francie 10:11

Yeah, that’s probably an example, is what you don’t want your better player to do. It is a better player, their job is to build the confidence of their partner. Help them out. Exactly. So, Francie, what is the best advice you’ve ever received? Um, well, I’d say uh I have to give my parents credit, uh, although when I was a teenager, I might have rolled my eyes a few times with their advice. But um they would whether I’d get nervous for a big junior uh match or you know, maybe I faced a cheater and I was just frustrated at the end of the match that I’d gotten them some bad line calls. They always would tell me, you know, when you get to be our age, meaning adult uh age, uh I wouldn’t remember the necessarily the results or the scores, but I’d remember the friends I’d made and uh the experiences that I’d had with those friends. Um so they were always able to keep it in perspective. And I feel like now those uh commercials where you’re becoming your parents. So when I’m coaching and I hear people complaining about their captains, she put me with the worst player on the team for three straight matches. I just want to give my parents advice. Like it’s gonna be okay, just be a good friend. And um, you know, that’s what you’re gonna remember 10 years down the line. So, yep, I pretty much become my parents now. Yep. What happens?Carolyn 11:24

That’s really good advice though.Erin 11:26

So, since you’ve played for so long, you must have a crazy story. So, what’s the craziest thing that’s ever happened to you on a tennis court?Francie 11:34

I have been playing for a long time and I have a lot of crazy stories. I heard Claire Bartlett’s um interview with y’all, and I’ve had something similar where opponents flip the score. Um, so I don’t want to copy hers, but uh when I was in the girls’ 12s and I was in a hot summer match battling it out, uh, and when I say battling, I mean probably hitting a million lobs because it was the 12s. Yes. And uh I had asked my parents, you know, can I have Gatorade in my water bottle that day? Because it was so hot. So I they gave me a mixture of water and Gatorade. And we finally got to a changeover. I was so excited to chug my Gatorade and I go to chug it. And I took that first sip and I knew something was wrong. And um I had forgotten to to close the lid on my water bottle. And sure enough, in the summer, there were yellow jackets everywhere, and they had gotten in the water bottle, the water jug. And when I took that jug, yellow jackets, uh, it was a stew of Gatorade and yellow jackets. They fought all the way down, and one stung me and set my throat and stuff. So that was the craziest story, and lots of Benadryl and um ipoprofen solved it uh, you know, with some doctors. But uh yeah, I guess the moral of the story is always close your water your water, especially if you have sports drinks.Erin 12:47

Could you finish your math?Francie 12:48

No, you had to retire it. I had to retire, but I did get the sportsmanship award from that tournament.Carolyn 12:54

Wait, so you chugged it and the yellow jacket came down your throat?Francie 12:59

Yeah, so they had all flown into my little water jug, uh, you know, because I left the cap open and I didn’t look before drinking. And yeah, I took one big swallow of yellow jackets.Erin 13:11

That is crazy. That is definitely one we have never heard.Francie 13:14

All right.Erin 13:14

You get an award for that, Francie.Francie 13:16

Yeah, because I know you’ve interviewed hundreds of guests, so I’m excited about that.Carolyn 13:21

Um, Francie, can you also tell us your most memorable moment on the court?Francie 13:25

I’ve had a lot of those too, and you know, they all center around team competition, whether it’s college tennis, league tennis, um, there’s just nothing better than playing as a part of a team through tennis. And uh, but I I’ve been a coach and those are probably my best memories. I’d say one of them um that maybe your listeners can benefit from when I was coaching at Methodist University. We were on our spring break trip. We were playing a team from Pennsylvania that on paper was a lot better than us. We should not have been competitive that day. But my players um came to play, you know, they strung together some wins, and before we knew it, it was all coming down to one singles match. Um actually, it was, I believe, number four singles, and it was our senior. She never lost. She was one of those players that took the pace off the ball and ran down everything and just never missed, never lost. She was awesome. Unfortunately, it wasn’t awesome that day. She was she lost first set, she was down um 5’2, and I went out there to talk to her. She was just bawling. She was so upset because she was gonna let her team down. And you know, she was the upperclassman, she wanted nothing more to pull off that upset for the team. And that girl was good. I didn’t know what to tell her as the coach. So all I tried to do was just try to get her to stop crying. Um, I’d read some sports psychology books, and I said, you know, I’ve read that when you smile, it’s nearly impossible to be nervous, sad, mad. Um, it releases uh some chemicals into your bloodstream that suddenly, you know, just makes you happy. So let’s try it. So I made her smile at me for 15 seconds, that changeover, and she wanted to kill me, but it made her have permagrin. And she did it. And I said, Okay, now you’re gonna go out and play. And after every point, you have to look at me and smile. She rolled her eyes again and she went out there. She won the first point. She looks at me with the most fake grin anyone’s ever seen, but she did it. She did it. And then she wins the next point. And you know, she continues to give me the fake smile. She strings together that game, and suddenly her smile got a little more genuine, and her opponent got crazy. She was like, I’m getting ready to close out this match and win it. And for some reason, you know, this girl’s just laughing and smiling. What’s going on? And before we knew it, my pri my player had gotten to 5-0 in the second set. By this point, she really was. She was smiling during the points, after the points, before the points. And uh, she came back and she won that set 7-5. And then the third set, I don’t even know if she lost the game. Um, she just put it on cruise control, and it was really just about you know, releasing that kind of stress and that negative energy through through smiling. And um, and suddenly she got in a groove. She she got in a zone. That’s a great thing. Yeah. So her teammates all ran out and pretty much tackled her on the court. And it was one of the biggest wins at that time for our program um in history. So it was awesome. And uh, I’d like to say it was my coaching advice, but like I said, I was pretty much trying to get her to stop crying and she did the rest.Erin 16:06

Yeah, but most people would, you know, give advice about like do this with your forehand or try a drop shot or you know, like tactical, but you just did the emotional part, which that is credit to you. That’s awesome.Francie 16:17

So now when I coach uh adult players and they’re heading the states and I know they’re gonna be nervous, I I do the same thing, even though I’m not out there on their court. I tell them they have to look at their partner and smile in between every point. And it calms them down and hopefully provides a little more fun of an experience for them too.Carolyn 16:32

I’m gonna start doing that. I don’t do that. I’m gonna start smiling out there.Francie 16:36

There you go. If nothing else, your opponents will wonder what’s going on after you lost a point in your smile.Erin 16:42

I know. I want to see the big fake smile. That that would make me laugh every last we did that. Like when you when I know you’re just faking it, that would make me start laughing.Francie 16:51

For sure. For sure. Definitely. I’m gonna see that too. Anything else, Francie? Well, yeah, I’d say in my current position, um, as your listeners probably know, tennis has been booming since COVID, and we need more coaches. Uh and so for league players out there that often think, oh, I see my pro, I could never coach tennis. If you know more than someone that’s never picked up a racket, then you can be a coach because you have something to offer them. And whether it’s coaching kids, coaching adults, any age group, any skill level, we have wheelchair tennis, abilities tennis. We have so many different opportunities to make an impact, either as a volunteer or to make some extra money on the side. I encourage all your listeners, if you’re passionate about tennis, to contact your USTA district or tennis center representative, and they can help you get started. We do a lot of free trainings and low-cost trainings, but would love to have more people just using their passion to grow the game of tennis and introducing the sport so they can have the experiences that y’all have had.Carolyn 17:45

We really appreciate Francie coming on the podcast. Please check out our website, which is secondservepodcast.com. Thanks so much for listening and hope to see you on the court soon.

The post Ep. 318: Beat Better Players appeared first on Second Serve Tennis Podcast.

Ep. 317: Advice for Combo or Playing Across Levels

Carolyn and Erin — Sat, 28 Mar 2026 21:11:07 +0000

Do you ever have trouble playing people that hit with less pace? Why is it so difficult to play against lower rated players? Francie Barragan is here to give advice for playing combo or across different levels!

We are replaying a few of our most popular episodes and this was one of them!

Francie played college tennis for NC State and was the Assistant Coach for NC State after graduating. She was the Head Coach at Methodist University, the Director of Professional Tennis Management at Methodist University, the Director of Tennis at MacGregor Downs Country Club, and is a PTR & USPTA certified pro. She is currently the USTA Southern Manager of Coach Development and Training and the Tennis Service Representative for North Carolina.

She was inducted into Methodist University Athletics Hall of Fame, the Fayetteville, NC Sports Club Hall of Fame, named PTR Pro of year for NC, and received the USTA NC Lifetime Achievement award.

Tennis is booming and needs more coaches! If you would like to learn to coach you can contact Francie at Barragan@sta.usta.com.

Here’s a complete transcript of our conversation with Francie:

Carolyn 0:03

Hi, this is Carolyn, and I’m here with Erin, and we are really excited to have Francie Barragan here with us. Francie played college tennis for NC State and was the assistant coach for NC State after graduating. She’s the head coach at Methodist University and the Director of Professional Tennis Management at Methodist University, and also was the director of tennis at the McGregor Downs Country Club in Cary, North Carolina. She was inducted into the Methodist University Athletics Hall of Fame, the Fable North Carolina Sports Hall of Fame, and named the PTR Pro of the Year. And she also received the USTA North Carolina Lifetime Achievement Award. She is currently the USTA Southern Manager of Coach Development and Training and the Tennis Service Representative for North Carolina. So, Erin, unlike us, she is definitely an expert.Erin 0:48

I read that bio when she sent it, but hearing it is even more impressive, Francie. So thanks for being with us. Thank you. Really, it just means I’m old. I’ve done a lot of different things. Uh somehow uh you look much younger than I do, though. So I doubt it. It just means you’ve been playing tennis a very long time and didn’t start as an adult, like Carolyn and I.Carolyn 1:08

True. Yes. We’ve been playing for a while.Erin 1:10

Yeah.Carolyn 1:10

Since Francie has dealt with a lot of adult recreational players, she has received a number of questions about playing combo or about playing people at different levels. So, Erin, can you start us off with the first question?Erin 1:23

Yeah. We wanted to talk about what we call the combo season in uh in our southern section. We do have players that listen from all over the country, but we know that a lot of players listen from the nine southern states that we’re in. And so can you kind of explain? I know when I first started in tennis and I heard about our ranking system, and someone said I’m a two-five or I’m a three-five or I’m a five-off or whatever, I was like, I have no idea what that meant until I went through the self, what’s it called? Self uh self-rating. Self-rating. Thank you. I was like, not self-ranking, the self-rating process. And then I was like, oh, okay, I’m a two-five based on this criteria. But then when it came to combo season that same year, because I started in the summer, in our area, we do combo season in the fall. And so when people were like, oh, I’m playing on a five-five team or six-five team, I’m like, oh my gosh, they’re really, really good. They’re playing like pro tennis. And then I realized, and I want you to explain, it’s actually the combination of the two players’ rankings on the court. Correct? So kind of explain the levels.Francie 2:25

So combo doubles in the southern section does allow you to play with people that you wouldn’t see throughout the year in your other leagues. So a three-five has some options. They can play six, five doubles, uh, which is playing with the three-os, seven, five doubles, playing with the four-os. And uh, you know, one of the things we hear about leagues is oh, I play against the same players all the time. Combo doubles gives you a great opportunity to see some new faces and some new partners as well.Erin 2:50

Yeah, that’s great. So I actually play so Carol and I are both four-os, so I play seven, five, and eight, five. But tell us um what it’s like. Like I know you coach a lot, so give us what you’re hearing from players and what their experiences are playing as a combo and the levels that they are and what they like to play. Because I know we’ve talked about playing against lower level, higher level players.Francie 3:10

So explain that. Whether you’re in the southern section or outside of our section, uh, you know, I think there’s uh tremendous benefits in playing with different skill levels. Uh what I’ve seen in my personal experience in putting together league teams and encouraging people to play on leagues is that everybody wants to play up. We all want to play with that better player. You know, we’re just hoping that better player invites us to the courts that day to hit with them. But when I start asking players to maybe play with lower level players, then I kind of get that, well, I’ve got a doctor’s appointment, or I, you know, I’m busy, I don’t know, I can’t make it that day, whatever.Erin 3:45

Everyone’s excuses. Every Tuesday in the fall, I’m booked.Francie 3:49

Every single one. Yes. But there’s benefits to playing with players that are both stronger than you and weaker than you. And one of the best stories I’ve heard recently, a gentleman named Matt Knode, who used to be the coach at Baylor University, he said even at that level, you know, his players would complain when they went to the practice court and they were playing with a player that might be lower in the lineup than them. And he finally told the guys one day, you know, Djokovic, Alcaraz, and Federer, those guys, how often do they get to practice with someone that’s better than them? Or even play a match against someone that’s better than them? Um really for some of those guys, never. Um yet are they getting worse? You know, because that’s one of the points that players will make. Oh, I get worse when I play with uh lower-level players. Djokovic isn’t getting worse last time I checked. Um so I thought that was one thing I’d never thought about is uh if the higher level players can do that benefit to put themselves in a situation to learn from every experience, whether it’s a better player or maybe not as good of a player, then certainly we can at the recreational level as well. Yeah.Erin 4:54

I feel like it it’s paying it forward too. I I was, you know, I mean, I started as a very beginner, never touched a racket, and I got invited onto a team. And then when combo season hit, actually at the time, there’s also a 5-0 combo in our area, which is basically just continuing your spring season with another two five. But man, did we win a lot at 5-0 and 5-5? You know. But I also felt like I was asked to play on a little bit higher level teams than my skill set. And so when I got to that higher level, I paid it forward and I was willing to play on those six, five, five, five, and six, five teams because I feel like, you know, other people brought me along. I felt like I should put, you know, kind of pay that back.Francie 5:34

I agree. It is giving up giving it back. It also is um meeting new friends. So one thing as a teaching pro that maybe will will save your listeners some money is uh when I teach every clinic, every private lesson, I started out and I asked the players, uh, what do you want to work on today? And uh half the time I just get a blank stare. They just look at me like, you’re the pro, figure it out. But uh the other half of the time, they usually have something in mind. And I’d say when they have something in mind, probably 80% of the time it is something similar to I played against a lobber the other day, and I know I’m a better player than them, but they gave me no pace, or maybe they hit a slice with no pace. And you know, I’m the 3-5 and they’re a 3-0, but they just drove me crazy because they didn’t give me anything to work with. And before I knew it, I’d lost the match. And how do I beat those players that aren’t giving me the pace I like and I’m not able to get in a rhythm? And I know I’m a stronger player, but uh I don’t know how to win those matches. And so they come to the pros, they want lessons on it. Well, really, that’s good. You know, uh the pros can give you a lot of good advice, but you can sign up for combo doubles and play against those lower-rated players. You can ask the players at your club that might be a lower-rated player that you know hit a lot of lobs. They might hit a lot of off-pace slices and angles, and they want to play with you. If you’re a stronger player, so go up to them, ask to practice with them, ask to play with them, they’ll make their day, and uh you can learn how to how to beat those players. Yeah. And so when it comes time for league season, you’re ready, you know the strategies that work for you and your game to beat those lobbers or those players that might not give you the pace. And I think that’s a lot something that our players often don’t think about is uh, you know, taking the initiative to invite those lower-rated players to play with them and how honored they’ll be, but how you can tremendously benefit from it.Erin 7:20

I just learned that just now on this pod. I was today years old when I learned that because we always think, like you said, we go to a pro and ask, how do we do that? How do we hit against someone with less pace? But you never I have not thought about, and I’ve practiced with a lot of players that are ranked lower than me, but I haven’t thought about going out and and literally like making an invite, a formal invite to practice with them for me to practice against that kind of pace and for them to practice against mine, which is real that’s really good advice. Thank you.Carolyn 7:49

Yeah, yeah. And I always liked playing down because I know I played five, five, six, five, seven, five, and eight, five. I’m hopefully not gonna be the worst one on the court. So it always gives me a little bit of like, okay, today I’m, you know, I can try different things.Francie 8:03

Yeah. I agree. That’s why it’s beneficial to play both up and down and at your skill level. All three are important, and and really taking that approach of practicing at all different levels is gonna help you in the long run tremendously.Carolyn 8:16

Yeah. Do you have any strategies when we’re playing people with less pace?Francie 8:19

It’s not easy, is it? No.Erin 8:22

First of all, I only hit hard and harder, Francie. I don’t I I know you I know you haven’t seen me play, but that’s my game, right, Carolyn? Yes, yes. Hard and harder.

Francie 8:31

There’s nothing wrong with that, but it takes a lot of effort to generate your own pace. It’s easier to use others’ pace. Uh and uh yes, it takes a lot of effort, it takes a lot of footwork. You have to make sure you’re balanced, you’re using your legs, you’re using your core to generate that pace. Have to add the spin too, um, because the spin will give you that consistency. But I think the toughest thing when you’re playing with someone that doesn’t give you the pace you like is uh gives you more time to think. And uh as we all know as tennis players, sometimes it’s not great when we’re thinking out there. Um and so when someone hits the ball hard, we don’t have to think. We’re just using their pace against them. But suddenly, when we’re given all that time, the key is to come up with your plan before the point starts and to stick with that plan because you’re gonna be tempted to change, you know, oh, I know that I planned on taking this ball out of the air, but this would be a great opportunity to hit the perfect drop shot when actually you’re five feet behind the baseline and it’s not the perfect opportunity. But your mind will play tricks with you if you have too much time on the tennis court. So, most importantly, if you take anything from this, is if you’re playing against a maybe a lower-rated player that doesn’t give you the pace you’re used to, is come up with that plan in advance and stick to it and try not to make those last minute changes of your mind because that’s when the errors happen.Erin 9:45

Yeah.Francie 9:45

If they’re a lobber, you know, the worst thing we can do is just try to blast the first ball for a winner, especially if you’re 10 feet behind the baseline. You know, we want to. I mean, we see that sitter coming and we want to just blast it. Um, but uh that’s probably not the best way to set up the point. Uh so what we’re gonna do is uh we’re we’re going to first of all use our strength. So uh, you know, if it is, Erin, I think you you said oops. So that means you like to hit the ball hard. I did.Erin 10:12

I said not directly defensively.Francie 10:15

If you if you like to hit it hard, you know, use your strengths, like I said earlier, um, but go for a bigger margin for error. Uh maybe you aim for the single sideline because you do have to set up your point. Once you you’ve worked that point, you’ve got your opponent in a defensive position, then look, then move forward and and hopefully put yourself in that winning position at the net. But if they’re really lobbing and and you can’t attack, they’re pushing you way behind the baseline. The best strategy is to hit a few high deep balls back. It might be heavy top spin balls, it might just be a true lob, push them back as well. Once you push them back, you’ve got the open court to potentially hit angles, maybe even drop shots. You have time to take balls out of the air. But this is important. If you’re gonna hit lobs and take balls out of the air, you’ve got to communicate to your partner in advance and tell them when we get in this lobbying rally, I need you to anticipate that a lob’s coming back and cover, cover your side. So when you’re looking to take that ball out of the air, you would uh basically form a wall on the service line with your partner. You uh have to cover the lob. And then if that still isn’t working, you can potentially draw them into the net. If they’re one of those baseliners that never misses and just isn’t giving you the pace, then then maybe off the return serve, we use like an angle slice or just a um a shorter ball to pull them in. And then you can hit the ball hard. You have a target, you can drive it up the middle, you can do whatever you need to do uh to win the point once they’re up there. Those are just a few ideas.Erin 11:38

I’m going back to so many matches that I lost, wishing that I had thought about these tactics. Yes, right, Carolyn? Yes. I’m literally like, I’m thinking of players that that play this way, and I’m like, oh yeah, I th I thought I was gonna win that because she had no pace and I can hit hard and or whatever, you know. But yeah, I wish I had had these tactics before.Carolyn 11:58

Yeah, exactly. Or they lob constantly, and then I go, okay, I know I should take it out of the air. Yes. But then I’m not very good at taking it out of the air.Francie 12:07

Yeah, well, that’s a hard shot. Like I said, the first key is that your partner’s covering their side, or else we’re gonna get burned every time. The other thing is if you’re taking out of the air, if you’ve hit a lob and come in, they’re back at the fence. So we don’t have to be good. We don’t have to blast that ball because they’re right back there. So, really, actually, sometimes that moderately paced volley, uh, sometimes even a shank, a miss hit works better than a powerful shot because they’re back at the fence already. Um, so it doesn’t have to be as good as we think in our minds that we have to have to make it. And then one more tactic uh we talked about potentially having to hit some lobs back before we get the ball we want. I’ve found that if I lob over their net player’s head, you know, no one likes running for that ball. And then uh their net player is gonna be just getting bored, switching and switching and never getting to hit the shot either. So that can frustrate them. And if you can frustrate a lobber, then you deserve to win. I mean, then that matches yours if you have frustrated the lobber.Erin 13:05

Carolyn, I have a friend that she loves to get into a lob rally. She just will do it all day. Where I’m I’m not that player, but I remember playing with her one time and she was hitting. And you know, you can kind of almost talk to your partner when that’s happening because you’re waiting for a lob to come back, you’re hitting another lob, you’re waiting. And we had this conversation, and she literally looked at me and she said, I can do this all day. I have three daughters. She said, I have the most amount of patience of anyone I know. So every time I get in that, I think of that, I think it’s so funny.Carolyn 13:36

Thanks very much to Francie for coming on the podcast. We have one more episode with Francie where she’ll discuss some tactics for playing against higher-level players. What to do if your opponents are only hitting it to the lower rated player and the craziest situation that ever happened to her on the court and it involves yellow jackets. We hope you check out our website, which is secondservodcast.com. Thanks so much for listening and hope to see you on the court soon.

The post Ep. 317: Advice for Combo or Playing Across Levels appeared first on Second Serve Tennis Podcast.

Ep. 316: National Hit to be Fit Weekend

Carolyn and Erin — Sat, 21 Mar 2026 14:56:51 +0000

Tennis doesn’t have to feel exclusive or overly serious to be a real workout. We’re joined by Michele Krause to share the vision behind National Hit To Be Fit Weekend (May 15 to 17), a nationwide celebration that pairs National Tennis Month with a simple idea: make the court feel like a party and make it easy for anyone to say yes. Think music under the lights, big group energy, and a format that welcomes the person who has never played alongside the 4.0 who wants a sweat.

For more information on all things Cardio Tennis and National Hit to be Fit Weekend visit: http://Linktr.ee/cardiotennis

Here are links to our past episodes with Michele:

Ep. 144: Cardio Tennis – the Right Way to Play Triples

Ep. 145: Cardio Tennis Can Make You The Biggest Loser Too!

Here’s a complete transcript of our conversation with Michele Krause:

Carolyn 0:07

Hi, this is Carolyn and I’m here with Erin and we are excited to have Michele Krause back on the podcast. We had her, what was it, Erin? 2022. I think it was 2022 to discuss cardio tennis. So we are thrilled to have you back on. Thanks for coming back on, Michelle. So so excited to be back with you gals and to discuss our topic for today. Yeah. Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit about the topic, which is National Hit to Be Fit Weekend? I would love to.

Red Ball Triples And Inclusivity

Michele 0:36

So National Hit to Be Fit weekend is May 15th through the 17th. Now, this will be the third year that we’re doing National Hit to Be Fit. It is in conjunction with National Tennis Month. So I’m not sure if everybody knows that National Tennis Month exists, but it does, and it has existed for a very long time. And we’ve done a much better job, and I would say the last three to four years of embracing that and doing the things that we should be doing around that month. So Hit to Be Fit was a concept that I came up with because I love big events and I like lots of people and music and it should be a party on the court. So I’m like, let’s do uh let’s do National Hit to Be Fit Day. And in of course, my um thinking very big blonde brain. Uh it started as, okay, we’re gonna do this big event at Lake Nona at the US T national campus, you know, and we’re gonna have, you know, 20 courts of, you know, cardio tennis going on. And then I thought to myself, well, yeah, we can do that, but it should be bigger than that. Like ever like everybody in Florida should be doing that. Okay. And then I thought, no, everybody across the country should be doing that. And uh then I’m like, okay, we’re gonna have 300 locations across the country all doing the same thing on the same day. All right, so there was my vision. And we’ve had quite a bit of success um these last two years. And so the mission of National Hit to Be Fit Weekend is that one, we are celebrating tennis and all its health and wellness benefits. And we are also trying to unite the tennis industry on one day more or less. So the first two years it was Hit to Be Fit Day. And this year for our event, we looked usually at Lake Nona, we do it on a Saturday or a Sunday morning. And for this year, we felt we wanted to do it on a Friday night. So we will be under the lights. And because of that, um, knowing knowing our facilities across the country, not all of them would be able to do something on a Friday, Friday night on a big scale. So we made the decision that would be National Hit to Be Fit weekend as opposed to National Hit to Be Fit Day. Okay, so so a facility, you can be a country club, you can be a commercial facility, you could be a public park, you can be a CTA. You can schedule your event anytime Friday, Saturday, Sunday over that weekend. Love it. All right, I just talked a lot. Do you have any last thoughts on that?Carolyn 3:34

I I had the question. So, what are people doing during the okay? Yeah, so that’s great, Michelle. Hit to be fit. What does that mean?Erin 3:42

What does it mean? What does it mean? All right, so I heard uh Friday night party as well.Michele 3:47

Yeah, and we’re and we’re I’m gonna talk more about the Friday night party too, okay? So obviously I manage cardio tennis, and we know that cardio tennis is um a great way to get new tennis participants into our sport. Um, we also have adult red ball, okay, which is also one of the easiest entry points to get people into our sport. And so I’m about growing the game. Um, I am about all ability levels and fitness levels playing together and being inclusive. So the event itself is a little bit of adult red ball. And then our favorite game in the world, cardio tennis triples. Yes. Yeah. So Carol and I love triples, right? We do now. Yeah.Carolyn 4:36

Now that you now that you know the right way to play, right? Yeah, because I had played previously with a regular ball, and Michelle told us that was wrong. That’s wrong. Yeah. Because people were just getting nailed left and right. And then with the orange ball, it’s perfect.Michele 4:49

It’s perfect, yeah. So when you take the context of the red and the orange ball and um cardio tennis programming, again, we’re going to hit to be fit. And whether you’re a new player to the sport or you’re an experienced higher level athlete, everybody is gonna play with and against each other in this event format.Erin 5:14

So that is my favorite ball, is the red ball, actually. I love the red ball. But yeah, that ball, we actually, Carolyn and I last summer um did a triples event um together. It was so hot, but it was super fun. And there were all different levels, like you said. And I actually learned from you when we had you on in 2022, which will link your other old episodes back, you know, after um in our show notes, um, so people can go back and listen to that. But I think I learned then that you can mix all different levels. And we certainly had that in our event. And that’s what makes it fun, is it kind of doesn’t matter if you’re just beginning or you’re advanced, because that ball, I think you said it kind of levels the playing field for people. So I love that. Anyone like any of our listeners should be asking their friends to just come out, even if you usually get into tennis as an adult by having a friend just say, Come out and hit, just try it. We’ve had so many people that are now high-level tennis players start in their 40s and 50s just because their friend said, just come out and hit with me, just try it, give it a try. It’s fun, whatever. Um, and this is a perfect event for people to get started and ask their friends to come to an event like this because even if they don’t think they can hit a tennis ball, they’ll be able to. And it sounds like it’s gonna be a party.

How To Run The Party Format

Michele 6:26

So yeah, a party. Again, it’s it’s a it’s a red and orange ball event. Uh, music should be blaring. You want big numbers, okay? So if you if one is hosting this event, you really want to do this on a minimum of three courts with a minimum of 18 athletes. Okay, when you get down to two courts, it’s just not the same vibe, the same energy. Um, you can’t do the rotations as well. We have marketing collateral pieces for our facilities to use, sizzle video flyers, social media graphics to promote their event. We even have a short online course that’s everything’s free for the organizers to watch the the online so they learn how to actually run the vet the event. We don’t we don’t want people making up something. Okay, like we’re pretty, this is like this is this is what hit to be fit is. And it it is this because it is proven and we know it works, and you don’t need a coach for every court. There’s there is zero ball feeding in this event. Not one ball is fed. It is all partner interaction, and or in triples, the athlete is putting the ball into play. Okay, so you don’t need a lot of staff. You want to have great, you know, nightclub music going on. You could do fun things like if you want to do shirts for your participants, we’ll give you our hit to be fit logo. You can add food and beverage to it, etc. So, and you want to run the event um in the 90 to 20, excuse me, 90 minutes to two hours. Okay, it should not be more than two hours. 90 minutes is actually the perfect amount. Our Lake Nona event, we’re we’re pretty fancy with this one. So we have an amazing audio company and they set up an incredible sound system throughout the 20 courts. Okay, so the music is just incredible. And then we have a partner called Fit Radio. They are the leader in the group fitness music space from a uh in an app standpoint. And last year they create they curated two unique mixes for our event. So anybody that’s doing this event across the country will also have access to that music. Okay, so not only are we doing the same general activity, but hopefully we’re all listening to that party uh techno nightclub music. At Lake Nona, the Lake Nona Mascot Rally will be making an appearance. Um, there is a mascot. And then there will also be the debut of the new campus cocktail. Okay, which I have to keep under wraps because it’s still secret. Oh, it’s a secret.Carolyn 9:26

It’s a secret cocktail.Erin 9:27

I love that we have signature cocktails for all the events now.

How To Host And Register

Michele 9:31

It’s very signature cocktail. Yes. So anybody that’s listening around the country, you are very welcome to join us at Lake Nona. Okay. I mean, you don’t have to live in you know, Orlando, Lake Nona. Please, you know, make the trip. I think it’ll be worth it. Plus, you can see the UST National Campus. Um, registration for that should be live in a couple weeks. But in the meantime, um, anybody can go to uh LinkTree backslash cardio tennis to find all the information.Carolyn 10:01

Okay, so if we wanted to take do this here in North Carolina where we’re located, do we ask our CTA? Do we ask our pro? How do we do this if we want to be a part of this event? Exactly.Michele 10:13

And I’m hoping that your listeners um are a little excited about this and think, oh yeah, I would like to, I would like to do this here. So please, yes, speak to your um your racket staff, your tennis staff. Tell them that you heard about this. Uh you know, you as a member client would like to be involved. And then all they need to do is go to cardiotenisinstructor.com and they click on a link and they’re registering their site. So I need sites to register, right? Because the that’s the only way I know who’s participating. And my goal for this year is 300 locations across the country. All right. So we’re gonna help you get that. Thank you.Erin 10:54

Because Carol and I are both gonna do one at our club. Yes, we got two more already, right? We’re gonna force, yeah, we’re gonna force our pros. Yep. Um, so do you need, like, for instance, we at my club, we do uh our pros run like Friday night mixers. Yep. At least once a month, sometimes twice a month. So do they just need to say, like, I’m gonna have four courts and X amount of participants? They don’t have to actually register people’s names. No. Good.Michele 11:19

Correct. So all they’re doing when they register is they’re putting in their their name and their club and their email, and it’s just saying we’re participating as a host. Okay. And then when they do that, they get access to all the resources. Okay. So the marketing pieces, the education, they’ll get updates on things that are happening on that they would want to know about as we lead up to the big event.Erin 11:42

Okay, great. Yeah. Yeah. I’m gonna, I’m gonna force this on my club this week. Because it’s a party. It sounds like so much fun.Michele 11:51

So if you know, even if you talk, if um, if you’re a listener and you talk to your tennis coach and they don’t want to do it in May, I would, or they can’t for because of scheduling purposes, ask them to do it another time. So it doesn’t have to be that particular weekend, although it would help my numbers.

Players Can Run It Too

Erin 12:08

Right. We have a goal. We have a goal. I have a question. This might sound strange, but could I run? I’m not a coach. I’m a four-o mediocre, four-o player, but like there’s a um, we have some pretty social people at our club that sometimes they just go, we’re gonna get together again, you know, Friday night, Saturday night, whatever. I have four courts booked, who who can be out there? But again, like you said, that becomes a the numbers have to be even or someone’s sitting out, or um, and when you first said, I’m gonna go back to what you said several minutes ago about it being a 90 minute to a two hour event, I was thinking, that doesn’t sound long enough. But when you’re doing cardio tennis and hit to be fit, like Carol and I learned this summer, and it was scorching hot when we did it. Yep, you’re like people are like, I’ll sit out, yeah, you know. Um, but could I run it as like just a social, you know, if I had like however many. I mean, I could easily get 20 to 25 people on courts on a Friday night if I could, you know, if I have enough courts to book at my club. Is that something that I could just do if I didn’t have someone? Absolutely. Oh good. Oh, good, okay.Michele 13:07

In my world, I can’t rely on tennis staff all the time because they’re very busy, understandably so. So, yes, um, people like yourselves who love tennis, who have some good tennis knowledge, we we encourage you, actually strongly encourage you to run this type of an event. And that’s why I was so focused on making sure there was education so that as a you know, non-tennis teaching person, that you could review that education and you would know exactly what to do. Okay, giving you the tools, the agendas right there. There’s an agenda, it’s broken down in time hacks. It’s very self-explanatory. So again, listen, listeners out there, if you’re, you know, whatever level you are, if you like to organize things, if you have energy, if you like bringing groups of people together, you do not have to rely on tennis staff to make this happen.Erin 14:13

That’s really good to know. Because there are, I mean, there’s also a lot of groups, you know, just outside USTA that are just social people that get together and play. So this would be something great for them to run. And you could run it at your club. I know. Even if you can’t get your your pro involved.Carolyn 14:27

Yeah, and even I have neighbors that don’t play tennis, but they could play this.Erin 14:32

Yes.Carolyn 14:32

So, you know, or this could be a good leadway into it. It’s a good segue. Is that it doesn’t matter if you just starting or you’re a 4-0, everybody can play together. Right, which is really nice.Michele 14:43

And I’m here to support anybody, all right. So, again, listeners, if this is something that’s interesting you to you and you go to cardio tennis instructor.com and you register, um, I’m I’m very available and accessible be via email and text, and I would be more than happy to help anybody walk them through this.

Carolyn 15:06

Thanks to Michelle for coming on the podcast. We’ve included a link where you can find more information on all things cardio tennis and national hit to be fit weekend. We have one more episode with Michelle where we discuss why everyone should be using a red, orange, or green ball, whether you are a two-five or Roger Federer. So we hope you check that out. Thanks so much for listening and hope to see you on the courts soon. Thanks to Michelle for coming on the podcast. We’ve included links in our show notes where you can learn more about National Hit to Be Fit weekend, or you can register to host a hit to be fit event. Also, we discuss why everyone should be using the red ball, the orange ball, or the green ball, whether you are a 2 5 beginner or Roger Federer. So we hope you check that out. Thanks so much for listening and hope to see you on the courts soon.

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