What happens when the scoreboard no longer defines you?
Carolyn and Michelle open up about how breast cancer reshaped their game, mindset, and joy—both on and off the court. It’s a conversation about perspective, perseverance, and finding hope through tennis.
We were honored to talk with Michelle from Tennis Warehouse—one of the most recognized playtesters in the world, host of the Talk Tennis podcast, and an incredible player who somehow does it all.
Here’s a Transcript of our Conversation with Michelle, Host of Talk Tennis with Tennis Warehouse
Carolyn: 0:07
Hi, everyone. This is Carolyn with Erin. And this is part two of our special episode with Michelle from the Talk Tennis podcast with Tennis Warehouse. In part one, we discussed our breast cancer stories. And here is part two where we talk a little bit about how tennis has helped us through this process.Michelle: 0:25
Let’s talk a little bit about how did tennis look for you? Like, did you have to stop playing or did you stop playing? And like what yeah, talk to me.Carolyn: 0:34
I I stopped for two years. Oh my god. And then I started chemo and had the port and everything. See, and they tell you they’re like, oh, you can you can play tennis. You can do this.Michelle: 0:46
And like, no, you can’t. You like it’s anyway, sorry, keep going.Carolyn: 0:50
Well, a lot of people do play, but it’s the logistical nightmare that is having to go to appointment after appointment after appointment. And I had young kids, and it kind of took away my tennis time too. So I didn’t play through it. Have you been playing, Michelle?Michelle: 1:05
Well, and yeah, I wanted to rewind to your chemo comment and the appointments because I don’t know if you were like this, but when I was told I was gonna do chemo, it was gonna be Monday you have to go in for a blood draw, Tuesday you would you do your infusion, and then Wednesday you would come in for another shot for your white blood cells. So it’s not a one-day thing.Erin: 1:23
So yeah. Let me interject too, because she took two years off.Michelle: 1:27
Okay.Erin: 1:27
But the podcast helped get her through a lot of the early months. We had so many, we were on a tear before you got diagnosed. We had interviewed, we had interviewed so many people. We were very lucky to have had like, I don’t remember what the number was. Uh 30 might be an exaggeration, but we had the number one tennis podcast. Well, we had so many banked.Carolyn: 1:50
No, we were number two. We could never get to number one.Erin: 1:52
Yeah, we could never get to one. It was that, yeah, those other people we won’t mention. But she was able to take her laptop with her when she was sitting for chemo, and she was able, she does all of our editing. Um, you know, she’s our producer and our editor, and that she had like work to do, which kept her mind on something other than just going through cancer. Yeah.Carolyn: 2:15
It’s so true because an Aaron would contact me and tell me a funny tennis story. Yeah, yeah, or something. I mean, she kept me going through that, but also because of our podcast, we’ve interviewed these people that kind of remind you why tennis is the amazing sport it is. And so after everything, there was this big question of will I come back to tennis or not? Is it even worth it? I mean, Aaron, how many times do you think you asked me to play? A hundred?Erin: 2:41
As many as I could, yeah.Carolyn: 2:42
Yeah, like every, and I was just like, Oh, I don’t know if I want to come back because I I was really bad when I came back and I was trying to serve left-handed instead of right because everything was on my right side. Yeah. Um, but because of the podcast and listening again, I was like, no, I need to come back. What am I doing?Erin: 3:01
She has a two-handed, forehand, and backhand. Oh, nice. And I wanted her, I how I I tried very hard to convince her to come back as a lefty. Oh, because her, yeah, yeah, her tumor and and her lymph nodes, and it was all in her right side. And I was like, come back as a lefty. That would be so, you know, like everybody is, you know, great as a lefty, but uh, she didn’t. But I was giggling when you asked about that, Michelle, because she did play spring this year. Yes. Finally, she came back. And Carolyn, tell us how well it went. Did not go well. It’s not well.Carolyn: 3:30
First, I appealed to go down a level. That did not work. Um, so it didn’t go well, but I had a blast. Yeah, I had a blast. How about you, Michelle? Are you able to play? Are you gonna do lefty? Are you gonna mix it up? I did start trying to do lefty, but it was hard.Michelle: 3:44
So everything’s on my left. Okay.Erin: 3:47
Oh, and you’re right-handed. So I’ve been joking.Michelle: 3:48
Or you’re right-handed. I’ve been joking that I’m coming back with a one-handed backhand. So after my biopsy, well, that’s the crazy thing too. Like, first of all, it’s like all the stuff that like I see women doing as they’re going through through treatments and all of these things is wild. And like, you myself, sometimes I look at myself and I’m like, how did I get through that week? How did I get through that day? But like, even after my biopsy, and I swear they took like 16 biopsies out of me. It was weird to hit a two-handed backhand, like for a while. And like I couldn’t explain it to anyone. Um, I’m currently this is probably the longest I’ve never played tennis in 15 years. And I have not, I am on the tennis court because I coach, um, but I have not played tennis in three and a half weeks, which I know that’s wild. I had my surgery uh three and a three weeks ago. Um, but it’s so weird because I have a friend that just had uh knee surgery and no one’s like asking him, right, you know.Erin: 4:49
Yeah, when are you talking about?Michelle: 4:50
He’s like, Oh, I’ll play in four months, I’ll be back in four months. And it’s so funny. The first day I came back to work, someone asked me like why I wasn’t playing tennis. I was like, Oh, you know, like my boobs a little still uh the incision’s still there. Um they give you a timeline of when you could start. So I was told, and I don’t know what your surgery was, Carolyn, and we don’t even have to get that personal. I know some people are comfortable with it, some people aren’t, but um, I was told like it’s a four to six weeks recovery. My bandit, one of my bandages is still on, and they say just let it come off when it does. Um so I just started getting back in the gym and like working out a little bit more um this week. And I have a PT appointment on next week um because of lymphedema and all that. And then especially I’m probably starting radiation next week. And I’ve heard I’ve been asking everyone, I’ve heard with radiation it can cause your skin to get tighter and like mobility and all of that. So I’m gonna be working hopefully with a PT and getting back on the court, but kind of like you in this moment, I’m just kind of like, it’s okay that I’m not playing tennis. And again, I’m coaching a team. So like I was watching 14 young ladies compete yesterday and I’m getting my fill.Erin: 6:10
I was gonna say, that’s probably um, at least you’re out there in the tennis, even if you’re not the one hitting the ball. So I think that’s super important.Carolyn: 6:19
Yeah. And I I love it that you’re going to PT. I didn’t start PT until after radiation. I wish I would have started before. That’s the one thing that a friend told to me who had if you’ve had lymph nodes taken, even if you haven’t, if you’ve had whatever surgery you’ve had, is to um, especially as tennis players and someone that’s really active and loves endorphins. We were talking about that, that a little offline. Michelle and Michelle and I were is that, you know, find somebody that’s a PT, find a lymphedema specialist that will get you back out there. I know I started PT after radiation, and my first PT told me that she’s never seen anyone that’s had what I had go back to tennis.Michelle: 6:58
Oh, wow. They didn’t. Before she came back. That woman decided that she didn’t know.Carolyn: 7:07
We’re gonna start slow and we’ll get you back out there.Michelle: 7:10
And I know she will never listen, but I have to give a shout out to my surgeon. Um, she was my second opinion surgeon. I ended up going to LA at City of Hope. Shout out to City of Hope. But sh they are so good at treating you as a patient, not another, you know, cancer patient. And so there, you if you read my notes, it says, you know, she’s a tennis player, she’s she’s concerned about coming back. And I remember my first meeting with my surgeon, she said, I have a patient who plays tennis every day, and she had the exact same surgery as you, and you’re gonna have no problem playing tennis again, and we will make sure that you’re playing tennis. And it was like every time I went into the office, it was like, Oh, you’re the tennis player, or like you know, like you’re going to play tennis again, and like it’s not gonna be a problem. And I just am so thankful for that. And yeah, I’m sure that’s your mental health too, right?Erin: 8:01
I mean, it all ties together. The endorphins. Yeah, yeah.Michelle: 8:04
Yes. Um I was gonna say, like, I don’t know about you guys, but maybe we can talk about like some of the ways that like I don’t know if you did this, but I’m using tennis and like my background in tennis to get me through appointments. So going into all my tests, like I’m terrified of needles and like tight spaces, and and you know, you’re getting MRIs and PET scans and all these crazy things. So anytime I’d go, I’d put a story on my Instagram and said, like, you know, if you want to play tennis with me, like tell me where we’re playing, what racket you’re using. And I would just like in my head go through, like, okay, today I’m playing. I’ll give a shout out to one of our playtesters in Atlanta. Like, today I’m playing Sophie, she’s using this racket. I knew exactly where in the world we were because like we’ve played there before. And that’s what I would occupy my mind with as like I’m trying to not realize that I’m in an enclosed machine that’s super scary.Erin: 9:03
Yeah.unknown: 9:03
Yeah.Carolyn: 9:04
I remember seeing that story and thinking that was so smart. What you were doing is to really challenge your mind and put yourself in a different situation. And I remember thinking, I was like, man, I wish I had Michelle.Erin: 9:15
No, you know, that would have been such a good idea. Michelle had just been diagnosed first.Michelle: 9:21
Well, and so like with radiation, I’m like terrified, but also like I know it’s a grind. So like shout out to my radiation doctor who’s amazing. He’s a tennis player. And I’m like, we’re just gonna do it early in the morning, rise and grind. So like I’m thinking of it as like conditioning, maybe.Erin: 9:39
I don’t know.Michelle: 9:39
Yeah, you would kill me, Michelle. Play me.Erin: 9:42
Uh we could both play, we could play doubles against you, and you’d still beat both of us again. For sure.Carolyn: 9:48
So good.Erin: 9:48
You could have, yeah, you could, you could like play one, you could do a one-handed backhand and you would still beat us.Carolyn: 9:54
Yeah, and my husband does a one-handed backhand and it works great for him.Michelle: 9:58
I mean, I’m I’m not like afraid to make it look like Roger Fetter.Erin: 10:02
I was gonna just say, all you have to do is call your friend Roger and say, I mean, I need a lesson. I don’t know if you’re available, you have a little bit more time, maybe now. Yeah, yeah.Carolyn: 10:12
That’s exactly what you should do.Erin: 10:14
Use it, use it, girl.Michelle: 10:15
I know, right? Roger. I’m sure he would do it for the cause, right?Erin: 10:20
Yes. Of course. That’s a great idea. I actually truly believe that he would. He actually I’m del Maybe.Michelle: 10:25
No, I actually have a quick side story about another horrible disease. Um sorry. You gotta so true. You gotta laugh. You gotta laugh. Um he was connected with two of our men’s coaches at the University of New Mexico who are amazing. We’re amazing. Um, one of them was diagnosed with ALS, and through the bad times, um, Roger actually would send him video messages and check in on him and his family. Like that’s just I’ve always said Roger is like the real deal, but that’s a story that not a lot of people would know. But yeah.Carolyn: 10:59
Is Roger the best person in the world? Literally.unknown: 11:03
Yep. Yeah.Erin: 11:04
But I would vote him. Yeah.unknown: 11:06
Yeah.Michelle: 11:07
Um, let’s talk about what to say and what not to say because it’s really hard, I think, for people. I don’t know if you’ve gotten, I’m sure you have, because of course you have like the people that tell you how to handle it or like what to do with your diagnosis, or like what surgery to have, or like, I’m sorry, don’t tell me. I’m happy to share, but like, I don’t need strangers or people that don’t even know my middle name telling me like what to carry on to.Erin: 11:33
Yeah. We didn’t talk about it forever on our podcast. She never mentioned it, she never told our audience that she was going through it, never. And then one day, it probably was the uh episode that we interviewed Victoria from Tennis for Life.Carolyn: 11:47
Yes, it’s a tennis support group in North Carolina, North Carolina.Erin: 11:50
So you can be, yeah, it’s called Tennis for Life, and you can be anywhere in your journey. You could be in remission, you could be if you had cancer 10 years before, and it’s free lessons uh or free clinics and a support group. And we interviewed this woman, Victoria, who’s awesome. And we Carolyn always, I don’t know, Michelle, if you do this, but um Carolyn always sends the episode to our guests and to me and says, listen, if there’s anything weird, if I need to cut or edit or whatever, but we always get approval before we put out our podcast. And she sent it to Victoria and me. And I remember exactly where I was driving, and she said it on the podcast. She said, for the first time, like after two years or something, she was like, you know, and I I don’t even remember what you said. It was in the outro, and I was not prepared. I have goosebumps now telling the story, and I remember again being in my car, and I just started crying because I was I I went through the whole thing with her and I was not prepared for her to actually tell her story and be, but she was the same way. And the reason why it’s nothing against anyone, but she did not need strangers reaching out and telling her maybe you should think about this. She already had so much on her mind that she was trying to figure out who the best doctor is and what appointments do I go to, and what do I know? There’s just so much that you don’t need people reaching out, giving you more advice unless you’re specifically asking for it.Carolyn: 13:09
It’s just like a doubles partner, no unsolicited advice.Erin: 13:12
It’s true. Don’t coach me on the court unless I specifically say, What in the heck is going on? What am I doing wrong? Yeah.Michelle: 13:19
That’s such a good analogy.Erin: 13:21
So true.Michelle: 13:22
Right?Carolyn: 13:23
Literally. Some people I did want to know, you know, like what’s your background? Let tell me, you know, give me advice, or if you’ve been through it, I would like to hear it. Um, but nothing unsolicited.Michelle: 13:35
Well, and I don’t know. Well, I this is something that you learn really fast is everyone’s cancer is so different. So different. We can have the exact same diagnosis on paper, but where your tumor is, where your lymph nodes are, like how you know what your oncotype is, what your KI67 is, what your mamma print score is. Like these are all different things. And I wish I didn’t know these words, maybe.Erin: 14:00
But um because then you can try to compare them to someone else, and it’s just not the same.Michelle: 14:03
It’s exhausting.Carolyn: 14:04
It’s the anxiety. I think the anxiety is worse than the treatment.Michelle: 14:10
Um I would a hundred percent agree.unknown: 14:12
Oh, yeah.Michelle: 14:14
And through it, it’s more I that’s why I keep saying I actually am having a weird moment, and my radiation doctor was like, It’s okay, you’re allowed to feel that way. But I’m like, maybe everything I did wasn’t that hard, and it’s just all been really mental. And then I like step back. I don’t know. Yeah, it’s so mental.Carolyn: 14:29
I don’t know. Just like tennis. It’s just like tennis. That’s true.Erin: 14:32
No, that’s what I was, yeah. I mean, it it is, it’s the hard right? The hard I mean, not the hardest thing about tennis. Tennis is a very hard game, but the mental game, I think, is what people try to master, which they can’t. Like you can you can practice a stroke, you can practice a sir, you know, whatever, but the mental game will always creep in, you know. And that’s yeah, I saw the anxiety go through the roof with Carolyn just because, you know, how could it not? How could it not?Carolyn: 14:57
And just to be kind to yourself through the process, you know, you don’t you don’t have to be perfect, you’re a work in progress, it’s okay. You you try one way and then you try a different way.Erin: 15:08
And yeah, you know, some days are good and some days are bad.Carolyn: 15:12
Some days are good and some days are bad.Erin: 15:15
And trying to appeal down for next year, though, since her season was not stellar.Carolyn: 15:20
It’s less than ideal, Michelle.Michelle: 15:22
It’s less than ideal. Oh that’s I I’m bummed that that happened. I wish she liked came back and like all of a sudden you were like just destroying every star. Yeah.Erin: 15:33
I told her need to give me a lesson to say, like, let’s go. I told her I wanted you to come back as a lefty and just kill it as a lefty. I mean the Nadal, like a Nadal Jr.Carolyn: 15:44
Right. I wish. I wish. But I don’t care. I will say this, Michelle. I do not care about losing anymore. I used to be so crazy. I mean, for 3-0, I was in it to win it, you know. Um matters anymore.Michelle: 15:59
I mean, and I don’t mean that in a bad way. Everything matters, but nothing does. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I I have seen that shift completely in myself with as a coach. And I’m sure my team constantly is looking at me like, what’s wrong with coach? She’s not mad that we, you know, we lost or we, you know, whatever the score was. All of a sudden, just being on the court, having fun, laughing, the sun is shining. And like, I hope that’s something that I leave this team like a little bit of a legacy. Something I started three years ago that this team has really like dialed in with, which I love. They do it on their own. They warm up and then they stretch in a circle and they always have a question of the day. And like one of the girls is always like, the sun is shining, you guys look beautiful. And I’m like, Oh my heart. Like, these are the things that actually matter, not if you won or lost your match.Carolyn: 16:51
So we love speaking with Michelle. If anyone listening has any questions for Michelle or would like to send her a little encouragement, we’ve included her contact information in our show notes. If you’d like to hear the complete interview, we’ve included both the Talk Tennis podcast link and YouTube channel in our show notes. Thanks so much for listening and hope to see you on the court soon.
Here are past episodes we have recorded with Michelle: